(If this thread cannot exist pls due to theme or comments, pls delete, i dunno if it will straddle too close to any rulebreaking depending on content or attitude in comments. Please be respectful of all perspectives and worldviews. Everyone is entitled to how they feel, but everyone is also entitled to respect)Main Poll Question:Do you think the Sims 4's execution & aim of being more 'inclusive' has been moreso helpful or harmful to the game/series as a whole? °°°Possible Bonus Questions if you leave a comment (pick as few or many as u want):In what ways has the execution of this goal been done well? In what ways has it been done poorly?Do you think the focus on inclusivity/representation is something you're interested in seeing being more developed or explored in the game?What areas of inclusivity or representation do you feel are being left out, if any?Are there other goals for the series you think requires more focus?Is representation/inclusivity as a priority or necessity for you as a player?Do you think the Sims series needs a focus on representation in the game as whole?Do you feel like previous iterations have done well or poorly in this goal? In any future systems or updates centering inclusivity or representation, what would you like to see done as far as features or execution of any features?As a disclaimer:I am not saying whether whatever specific additons are inherently helpful or harmful (example: "I dont like X hair/clothes that belongs to X minority group") I am not talking about specific additions or content. I am talking about a general focus or direction of what the team considers representation & inclusivity and if the updates or systems instituted have left you satisfied or unsatisfied.---I know some people may consider a 'both' or 'other' option but there is no multiselect and added no other for sake of clarity. If your response truly doesnt fit in a poll option you can choose not to vote.

I would have liked to see an optional feature for all inclusivity content and gameplay instead of adding it through patches. You don't want it. No problem. Opt out.

It's extremely difficult to be critical about content like inclusivity /representation because people believe that because you are not interested in some content, you are against what the content stands for. I'm not against inclusivity /representation but I am also not very interested in it... so when that becomes Maxis focus, in their marketing and in terms of the content that they make, then I am not sure how to feel to be honest. I'm not sure if "Harmful" is the word that I would use, but it is a direction that I don't feel very strongly about, and thus, I don't feel very strongly about the sims 4 when that is it's focus.I can be happy for other people, but in the end there are other things that I would have wanted for the sims4 too.

I'd like to say that I like the aim, but in all honesty I'm not at all sure exactly what the aim truly is. All I've really seen about that are somewhat vague generalities. Perhaps it's necessarily that way because diversity and inclusivity are such complex concepts for a game to try and tackle accurately enough and sensitively enough not to alienate people who feel overlooked or intentionally omitted in representation. The whole topic is highly charged, and possibly too risky a thing to attempt to undertake at such a late stage in a game's life cycle. It's even a difficult topic to discuss, because it's all too easy to have various views interpreted as being "anti-inclusion" or "agenda-pushing" sentiments even if they aren't meant to be. And then we remember why public forums generally don't want people to discuss political matters. As for the execution, I think only time will tell. I do applaud the attempt, at least.

Sometimes I feel that general gameplay is kinda thrown to the wayside because the aim seems to be checking off a checklist of everything that is inclusive as heck and non-offensive as humanly possible. Now Im fine with whatever they give us, you wont see me rallying against some new diversity feature coming to the game. But, new gameplay features is going to keep my attention longer than making sure that the game is the most woke game that ever woked. Pronouns coming to the sims? Great! But my focus is still going to be having sims do more things.

Heya, @StrawberryYogurt I'm going to let this stay, you presented your argument for the thread in a thoughtful, open-minded way and I see no reason to remove it. As for the comment section, I will offer a word of caution: Thinly veiled sexist, racist or bigoted replies of any kind are still sexist, racist and bigoted. They will not be tolerated and I will swing the ban hammer at you.

The Sims 4 focused aim & execution on inclusivity /representation - helpful or harmful?

OldeSimsFan
New Traveler
3 years ago
A worthy aim, but impossible to accomplish:
This planet has over a hundred distinct cultures and several hundred people groups. No way can this amount be represented. Simple example: I live in New England, have been to California several times, often for long periods, courtesy of Uncle Sam's Canoe Club (US Navy). Both places are in the USA, but in terms of culture they may as well be in different countries. Hawaii is different than both of them.
Unless someone of a culture/people group is involved with the process and has 'this works, this doesn't' decision making authority mistakes will happen and someone, quite possibly many, will be hurt/offended/disappointed.
Not every culture/people group is well received by others. It is a sad fact that there are divisions, animosities, and fears that go back for centuries. This is a broken world, which means EA needs to tread carefully. The uproar in the forums a few years ago over some Muslim related content is a case in point.

A good idea, but in attempting to please everybody EA is in danger of pleasing nobody.
Annoghir
3 years ago
I think the aim is great, and the Sims of all games is where this sort of topic is most relevant.

When it comes to execution, I haven't been following the game enough to say whether I think what has been done, has been done well or poorly. Most of the elements I am familiar with I think have been handled fairly well, but there's lots I don't know about or haven't experienced.

What I can say is that this is another reason I want to see a new Sims game, so it can plan for certain things from the beginning. As mentioned, allowing everyone to use all clothing was a great choice. Frankly, a lot of fashion is ambiguous even traditionally so it's nice to put the options in the hands of the player. In a sandboxy game like the Sims especially, I will always say that more options are better pretty much no matter the context. The problem is that, since this wasn't planned from the start, the built-in body shape of some clothing makes them hard to use after all. I think many of these ideas will be perpetually hamstrung as long as they're being hot-glued on after the fact.
Fairysbrew
3 years ago
It's a tough question. You certainly won't see me complaining about more diversity. That being said, I feel like a lot could be done better - for instance, why are head coverings like hijabs locked behind a paywall (city living)? It's nice that they're there in the first place, but the fact that you have to buy a 40 dollar pack in order to have a muslim character feels wrong.

When it comes to custom gender settings, I ended up being kind of disappointed. A lot of the clothing items are still unusable, even the ones that have come out after custom genders were implemented. It ended up feeling like a last minute decision that they didn't really follow through on improving or working with. Also, you still can't really make non-binary characters, since the game still assigns your sims as male or female (as far as I've noticed, anyway).

All this rambling to say, I feel like all of the diversity in the Sims 4 feels kind of shallow. I've suspected this from the beginning, but I'm assuming that EA is really only adding all of this "diversity" for brownie points. More diversity ingame is objectively good, and it's not done exactly poorly in the Sims, but I wish they'd put more time into it instead of slapping features on last-minute or locking it behind a paywall and calling a diversity win.
cyncie
Seasoned Veteran
3 years ago
I think the key to being truly inclusive is to build in flexibility for game customization so people can include what they want in their game without eliminating or de-emphasizing other cultures, lifestyles, or choices. The problem with trying to shoehorn things into the game in the name of celebrating inclusiveness is that one person’s inclusivity can become another person’s exclusivity if their personal choices clash. So, the family player feels de-emphasized when occults are emphasized and vice versa. Gender nonconforming players feel de-emphasized when traditional gender roles are stressed and vice versa. One religion gets “included” but 5 others don’t, marginalizing those players. The games role should be to provide the tools to design your own game to play your way. Allowing a variety of choices across all spectrums prevents getting painted into ideological corners.
atreya33
Seasoned Ace
3 years ago
"cyncie;c-18023421" wrote:
I think the key to being truly inclusive is to build in flexibility for game customization so people can include what they want in their game without eliminating or de-emphasizing other cultures, lifestyles, or choices. The problem with trying to shoehorn things into the game in the name of celebrating inclusiveness is that one person’s inclusivity can become another person’s exclusivity if their personal choices clash. So, the family player feels de-emphasized when occults are emphasized and vice versa. Gender nonconforming players feel de-emphasized when traditional gender roles are stressed and vice versa. One religion gets “included” but 5 others don’t, marginalizing those players. The games role should be to provide the tools to design your own game to play your way. Allowing a variety of choices across all spectrums prevents getting painted into ideological corners.

How about simmers who like to play occult families? They exist and I am one of them. The biggest let down in realm of magic for me was the complete lack of magic options for child spellcasters. The opposite of occult gameplay is realism, not family.

I guess this mainly proves that it is impossible to please everyone. So many different people have so many different ways to play.
ChadSims2
Seasoned Novice
3 years ago
I'm still waiting on them to be inclusive to 50% of the world's population where's the tools to create decent male Sims.
texxx78
3 years ago
There should be diverse hairstyles, skintones, clothes, objects AND gameplay. It's not really inclusive if it's just about the visuals and so little about the culture. JA had the typical Selvadoradian dance as a new skill. I'ld like to see more of that.
keekee53
Seasoned Newcomer
3 years ago
The truth is I think EA is setting themselves up for failure. I do appreciate the effort but it is a monumental task to take on to try to represent everyone. I don't like the execution so far because I feel like a lot is forced in the game or one group of people gets more attention than others.

Examples

I love the Spanish culture and during Hispanic Heritage month we got all these foods to make, then Christmas we added two more with the coquito and the other food item. During Pride month there was some sort of parade and I think so clothing unless that was before. During black history month we got a shout out to black youtubers like WHAT?!?! Now paid for hairs added to the base game. I would like some soul food this February please and thanks. Where are the shrimp and grits, collard greens, peach cobbler, fried chicken, biscuits and gravy, chicken and waffles, etc

I thought it was a great idea to have the lactose intolerant trait added. Some people thought it was a problem. As I happen to be lactose intolerant, I was pretty happy with it. So now adding a simple allergy is a problem, yet people are asking for disabilities like WHAT?!?! Good luck with the crowd on that one EA.

Christmas delivery I wish would have included another tree that could have been decorated with new decorations and multicolored lights, Hanukkah items and Kwanzaa. I do appreciate the items we got but another example of how things are not equal across the board.

Anyway, I truly believe they are trying, but I feel like Pandora's box has been opened and can never be closed. They are never going to be able to please everyone.
cyncie
Seasoned Veteran
3 years ago
"Atreya33;c-18023498" wrote:
"cyncie;c-18023421" wrote:
I think the key to being truly inclusive is to build in flexibility for game customization so people can include what they want in their game without eliminating or de-emphasizing other cultures, lifestyles, or choices. The problem with trying to shoehorn things into the game in the name of celebrating inclusiveness is that one person’s inclusivity can become another person’s exclusivity if their personal choices clash. So, the family player feels de-emphasized when occults are emphasized and vice versa. Gender nonconforming players feel de-emphasized when traditional gender roles are stressed and vice versa. One religion gets “included” but 5 others don’t, marginalizing those players. The games role should be to provide the tools to design your own game to play your way. Allowing a variety of choices across all spectrums prevents getting painted into ideological corners.

How about simmers who like to play occult families? They exist and I am one of them. The biggest let down in realm of magic for me was the complete lack of magic options for child spellcasters. The opposite of occult gameplay is realism, not family.

I guess this mainly proves that it is impossible to please everyone. So many different people have so many different ways to play.

I was referencing people who prefer family packs to occult packs. My point stands.
Karamazov123
Seasoned Hotshot
3 years ago
Diversity and inclusion are good things to aspire for, especially in a game like this. Aside from making people feel better, it gives us more content to express ourselves and tell different stories.

My main issue is that it feels like representation is their main priority, over actual gameplay. Diversity is good (and good for publicity), but it shouldn't be the main focus. While I'm sure it's not the case, it feels like the marketing and the game think that's what's most important. But we're here to play a game, not to celebrate diversity. Yes, diversity can be part of gameplay. An aspect, a small aspect, that's usually confined to CAS and BB.