Re: Did Mastiff Get Nerfed?

Clip size decreased, adding more recoil, decreasing bullet damage / headshot damage etc. You could straight up lazer an entire team with one clip with R99, or r301 - or wingman.

You also had a lot more weapons being viable, the devotion with turbo charger could kill 4-5 people with one purple mag (vs purple armor).

With the little recoil + clip sizes you usualy downed two people with one clip, that changed to now almost downing someone but having to swap weapons to finish that one guy (if they have good movement).

Also, Season 2 was before sniper rifles go their own ammo type.  I never liked this change at all.  It restricts options which has essentially shelved sniper rifles for me.  Before this change, you could swap between AR and sniper without messing with your ammo inventory:

- G7 for light ammo

- Longbow for heavy ammo

- Triple Take for energy ammo

It's a very underrated thing people don't often talk about, but the ability to on the fly swap to a DMR without worrying about changing ammo types was HUGE.  The flexibility that allowed in combat and different situations can't be understated.  It also helped tremendously with the subject of weapon power and having viable options on hand.

Ah yeas, lets by all means bring back the old PK that could one shot everyone.

The low TTK is only advantage to people who can't hit more than 5 shots in a row, to be able to land more actually shows that you have at least decent aim.

Also reaction time is nullified completely if TTK is low and you get 1-2 shotted by enemy that made 0 sounds in game that somehow makes it that you hear people shooting 500m away from you, but can't hear wraith ripping a humongous fart in your face while they empty their gun at the same time.

The current TTK is alright, imagine this situation where enemies can never hear that you are coming and would be melted in 0.2s

@KelRiever You do know that every game needs balancing right? Do you even play Apex? How can't you see that Mastiff was literally OP because you could take down an enemy with two shots? The only way you could counter that was to have a Mastiff for you too but guess what you don't always have since this is a BR and RNG kicks in. You can outplay an eva8 with an SMG or AR, but you couldn't do the same with a Mastiff (unless the guy using it is a complete trash player). Now this has improved and most of the times it will take 1 more shot to take down a guy with a Mastiff. And don't bring the buff all the other guns thing, what do you want? To one shot everyone easily? Giving them no time to react? You're forgetting that Apex isn't just about shooting but movement is also a major factor in the game, so you have to be good in both of these things to be a decent player. 

Saying that Mastiff didn't need a nerf is just wrong and non sense, maybe you don't play the game enough to see how op that gun was.

@@Cross yes games need balancing but there are many tools for balancing. This game to keep has obviously gone foremost with nerfs far more than buffs and it’s gotten to the point than it’s really bad.  And I do blame Respawn for rolling over. Players will always complain about what killls them. 

Clip size did decrease alot. And everything I said was true and contributed to having a low TTK in season 1-2, if you cant graps that aint my problem.

@BaldWraithSimp  that combined with increased recoil + and damage numbers being higher back than all contributed to the game having a much lower TTK than we have today. I think this is a pointless discussion, you can ask anyone that played the game back in season 1-2 if the TTK was the same as today.

Now do you know what the clip magazine changes for Wingman was? Or are you just going to nitt pick R99. Do you know what the headshot values was on R99 back in season 1? And with the low amount of recoil you would end up having like 60/70% hs.

Bottom line is, you could down two people with one R99 magazine, you could down 4 people with one Devotation mag (turbo) - you cant do that now. Do you know why? I´ve already explained it twice now.

@NitromethaneAPYes, ofc the TTK was lower , I have played since day 1. Red Evo increased hp by 25 also. That's a 12.5% max HP increase.

I am not going to explain changes to each weapon, I used R99 as an example. Only way to prove how much the TTK decreased would be to make a spreadsheet comparing old vs new ttk, problem is I can't find S2 ttk spreadsheet.

E9 you won’t let go of your sensitivities I can’t help it.  Nobody even said you are a bad player.  But I’d bet you’d be better than you even are now if you stopped blaming the guns for getting yourself killed.

Nope.  We have differences of opinion but you’ve taken it personally.  I’m not worried about it because I certainly am to fecking old.  But I think the nerfing bent of this game has become absurd, this Mastiff nerf is the latest in players blaming weapons for their own deaths.  Fir from the problems of things like Wingman hits not registering.

Speaking of which I miss when the Wingman did actual damage.

But it’s what it is. I can’t help but wait for the next complaint to roll around.  Volt? P2020? Fictional Legos being stepped on in Apex?  Let’s hear it.

@E9ine_AC Nah we are noobs, doesn't matter if we hit every single shot of our AR or SMG, if we still die after two Mastiff shots that's because we are noobs, not because that gun was op. 😛

You should die after one shot!  I’m sorry that’s exactly what I’m talking about!  

But Cro you still even prove my point if it takes 2 shots.  Then more weapons shoukd kill you in 2 shots instead of saying the gun is OP.  How many shots do you want guns to do before you die? 3? 300? 300000?

Im sorry but that’s why I think the game community is wimpy.  It’s not personal but it is definitely a criticism of the community and this game.  When you die ftom 2 shots it is your own fault.  You should have killed your enemy in two shots.  You aren’t a noob but you are definitely worse than the person who killed you in that game.

Instead of his current quote, Kuben Blisk should say, “If you get killed, then they’re better, but only if you feel you shouldn’t have died in 2 shots cause you think somehow you were better than them and blame your gun.”  Lel!

@E9 I will yes, have to get used to it, I sincerely wish it was different. It really isn’t personal.  But right now there’s a Bangalore needs nerf thread going. When will it end!?

@KelRieverWe will keep asking for balancing changes and it will happen. You can keep crying all you want, while the rest of us will keep enjoying the game like we always have.

Edit:-

Seems like you lack the ability to comprehend simple texts. The thread is not about nerfing Bangalore, it's about why Respawn reduced particles in her smoke so it's easier to see in her smoke than it was before. I hope you can grasp that. 

@BaldWraithSimp 

red evo is not even the biggest factor to the TTK becoming higher, why I didn't even mention that.

R99-R301 had barley any recoil - you could easily kill 2 people with one clip, since landing headshots back than was super ez. Wingman from season 1 you could kill an entire squad with one clip.

Hell even alternator was crazy good in season 2 with the hop-up, and yeah people cried that it was too good. When in fact it was just challenging the R99/R301 meta.

TTK is not just shields, it has many variables - why you wont see a spreadsheet breaking it down, since you can't - how do you factor recoil / muzzle flash / pellet size / spread / bullet drop down damage scaling / amount of shots per second - single tap changes into a spreadsheet? ... If you actually played season 1-2, you would probably know what the TTK was like, but I dont think you ever did.

The game had a really good TTK in season 1-2, but people cried and cried and now we have a TTK that suites people with 400ms reaction speeds.

I hope respawn gets back to their vision and not always give in on the crying. Perhaps the former best Apex players would come back to this game, like mendo/dizzy/ace.

@Daze623  And they have calculated all the variables that has been changed that I named? Can you post the link to one from season 1 - 2.

Ones I´ve seen that are floating back from reddit did not even include headshot, it was calculated on body hits only - I mean you have to agree that those spreadsheets are a bit of a joke right?

Mercules904's TTK spreadsheet 

I think this was for preseason Apex even before L-star and Havoc came out.
I'm still looking for other early season Apex's TTK charts that people made. They're a bit harder to find now cause of how buried they are. The reason most of them calculated body hits only is because of how realistic it is that you'd most likely hit the body than spray down the head.