Re: Peacekeeper needs to be removed

"The Peacekeeper makes every single gun at close range irrelevant. You will not beat it with any AR, Sniper, Smg, or Pistol in the game." - MagmaticWolf

Oh really?

Quick scope headshot from the Kraber. Sniper ✓

G7-Scout does over 50 damage on headshot even to purple helmet and has a rate of fire almost 5x higher. Sniper again ✓

R-99 has the 2nd highest non-headshot DPS in the game (minus mastiff). SMG ✓

Devotion has the highest headshot or bodyshot DPS in the game. LMG ✓ (assuming turbo charger)

R-301 has the 2nd hightest headshot DPS in the game (minus mastiff). AR ✓

Wingman has a higher fire rate and with skull piercing attachment does at least 84 damage on each headshot. Pistol ✓

Looks like you're wrong on all accounts.

Quick run down on TTK for each one of the above

assumptions made

purple helmet

full purple armor

full HP

100% accuracy / 100% of pellets hit

Peacekeeper assuming all pellets hit (headshot or not doesn't matter) = 1.03s

Kraber quickscope headshot = instant

G7-Scout all headshots = ~0.88s

G7-Scout all bodyshots = ~1.32s

R-99 all headshots = ~0.71s

R-99 all bodyshots = ~0.88s

Devotion all headshots = ~0.46s (assuming turbo charger)

Devotion all bodyshots = ~0.73s (assuming turbo charger)

R-301 all headshots = ~0.75s

R-301 all bodyshots = ~1.17s

Wingman all headshots = ~0.59s (assuming skull piercing)

Wingman all bodyshots = ~1.17s

BONUS peacekeeper can lose in TTK to the EVA-8 as well *

EVA-8 all headshots = ~0.94s

EVA-8 all bodyshots = ~1.41s

The only thing the peacekeeper needs done about it is have a slightly larger pellet spread so it isn't as good at range.

---

@Comanglia wrote:

"The Peacekeeper makes every single gun at close range irrelevant. You will not beat it with any AR, Sniper, Smg, or Pistol in the game." - MagmaticWolf

Oh really?

Quick scope headshot from the Kraber. Sniper ✓

G7-Scout does over 50 damage on headshot even to purple helmet and has a rate of fire almost 5x higher. Sniper again ✓

R-99 has the 2nd highest non-headshot DPS in the game (minus mastiff). SMG ✓

Devotion has the highest headshot or bodyshot DPS in the game. LMG ✓ (assuming turbo charger)

R-301 has the 2nd hightest headshot DPS in the game (minus mastiff). AR ✓

Wingman has a higher fire rate and with skull piercing attachment does at least 84 damage on each headshot. Pistol ✓

Looks like you're wrong on all accounts.

Quick run down on TTK for each one of the above

assumptions made

purple helmet

full purple armor

full HP

100% accuracy / 100% of pellets hit

Peacekeeper assuming all pellets hit (headshot or not doesn't matter) = 1.03s

Kraber quickscope headshot = instant

G7-Scout all headshots = ~0.88s

G7-Scout all bodyshots = ~1.32s

R-99 all headshots = ~0.71s

R-99 all bodyshots = ~0.88s

Devotion all headshots = ~0.46s (assuming turbo charger)

Devotion all bodyshots = ~0.73s (assuming turbo charger)

R-301 all headshots = ~0.75s

R-301 all bodyshots = ~1.17s

Wingman all headshots = ~0.59s (assuming skull piercing)

Wingman all bodyshots = ~1.17s

BONUS peacekeeper can lose in TTK to the EVA-8 as well *

EVA-8 all headshots = ~0.94s

EVA-8 all bodyshots = ~1.41s

The only thing the peacekeeper needs done about it is have a slightly larger pellet spread so it isn't as good at range.

---

This. I've said it a few times. Here it is again. Just take away the ability to put the choke attachment on the peacekeeper. Just like the other shotguns, it should take bolt and optics. The choke gives it too much range for a shotty. If its still OP after that maybe mag reduction to 4 (match the barrells anyways).

Numbers and all are cute and stuff but in the actuall game i get one taped with Blue armor from a Peacekeeper, this just should'nt be. At least let me breath 1-2 seconds more. Down the damage(not to much ofc), increase the spread in range and you still have a solid shotgun.

Numbers don't lie, people do.

" i get one taped with Blue armor from a Peacekeeper" - 0A_Vex

^ See people lie.

You want to know how I know?

Cause the numbers say that Peacekeeper maxes out at 165 damage if every single pellet hits as a headshot. Guess how much damage it would need to do to 1 tap Blue Armor and full hp.

Oh yeah 175, so 10 more damage than max possible.  You can't be 1 tapped with full blue and full hp. Not to mention how rare it is for every pellet to connect as a headshot...

On top of that we haven't even factored in helmets, if you had a blue helmet the peacekeeper would do about ~142 damage.

If you got 1 tapped you didn't have full blue armor and/or you didn't have full hp and/or you didn't have a helmet

Peacekeeper needs a different, less centered spread pattern, possibly slightly higher spread in general, and 4-5 shots in a mag instead of 6.

I'm even okay with them keeping the choke for it, since it takes some time to tighten up the spread, but being able to hit someone over 20 meters away for 90 damage from the hip is kinda ridiculous, even if it is hard to pull off consistently. That's as much as a Wingman headshot on someone without a helmet!

Couldn't upload a picture to here, but, here's a link that shows the spread pattern of every gun

See how much bias the pellets have towards the center for the Peacekeeper compared to the EVA-8, or even the Mastiff? Even without a choke, you're be able to land 70 damage shots from waaay further out than you reasonably should be able to. If the spread was a circle shape with one in the middle (similar to the EVA-8) instead of a star, you wouldn't have this mid-range monster that it currently is. Make the inner 'circle' of the star fill out the gaps of the outer circle. No more shotgun sniping without using the choke! Problem solved.

Comanglia-TTV

If the peace maker is so bad as you say and get outgunned by everything why you are trying to defend it? just use another weapon that you pointed.

The thing about the PeaceMaker is that it CAN oneshot, but even if doesn't it has a high chance to do alot of damage and 3~4 shot someone due the nature of being a shotgun. It's not like a scout or wingman where if you miss slighly to a side you do 0 damage, a shot slighly to the side with peacemaker can hit for over 50 easily.

It's the definition of noobtube. The problem is that this noobtube is so good that even non noob players use it; because of it's range, because of it's hipfire potential, because of the 1~2 shots potential even at middle range, because of the amount of ammo and potential kills per magazine.

Wingman is a problem in itself, but saying that the peacemaker is ok is insane. It's a OK to good weapon at middle range and it's a shotgun. All you need is a sniper that suits your taste and you are good to go.

Quick scope headshot from the Kraber. Sniper ✓

G7-Scout does over 50 damage on headshot even to purple helmet and has a rate of fire almost 5x higher. Sniper again ✓

R-99 has the 2nd highest non-headshot DPS in the game (minus mastiff). SMG ✓

Devotion has the highest headshot or bodyshot DPS in the game. LMG ✓ (assuming turbo charger)

R-301 has the 2nd hightest headshot DPS in the game (minus mastiff). AR ✓

etc...

_______________________

Yeah....And did you take into account that you can be 75% of the time undercover with the peacekeeper, just peaking for a shot?

Because I don't think you can with the devotion...

Or the R-99...

Ah. You can with the kraber. Did you take into account you need to aim with the kraber?

And what about early game, when people have no armor? did you calculate the TTK with the so good R-99 SMG(don't get me wrong, I like this gun a lot)? Is it better than the 0.001s with the peacekeeper?

There's a reason why I die immediatly when I encounter an ennemy with the peacekeeper, and that I make 3-4-5-6 kills when I'm the one finding the peacekeeper.

@Comanglia Actually no. My point is that has too much ammo.

You reducing the range will not solve the problem that it creates it's own game in CQC.

"It's a OK to good weapon at middle range and it's a shotgun" - TrueDivinorium
"because of it's range, because of it's hipfire potential, because of the 1~2 shots potential even at middle range..." - TrueDivinorium

Tell me how I'm supposed to not take away that you think the shotgun is too good at range? A shotgun 2 shoting people in CQC is nothing new in damn near any game I've ever played including other games with generally longer TTKs than this game. The handful of games I can think where a shotgun can't 2 shot someone for max damage is almost always in the scenario where someone has overheal and/or they're playing the high HP classes in Team Fortress 2 OR Mega Health + Heavy armor in Quake.

The fact that the peacekeeper CAN'T 1 shot headshot you when you have full hp + full blue armor even without a helmet is surprising (in a good way).

"it creates it's own game in CQC." - TrueDivinorium

Increasing the spread of the peacekeeper would mean it would do less max damage shots at close range as well. Finally, it's a SHOTGUN of course it's going to be good in CQC it's supposed to.

I also doubt ammo count matters that much 2 shots and the weapon is garbage even at its current damage, 4 shots people will still be complaining about it even if it had a higher spread on top of that and got a damage nerf on top of that and did 100 damage (-10 from current) and 150 headshot (-15 from current). hell it could probably do 80 damage to body and 120 to head and their would still be a lot of people complaining cause it can 2 shot their white armor.

@Comanglia the problem with your change is that it will turn the peacekeepr in a version of the Eva. We want unique weapons, that's why reducing the ammo is ideal. It rewards accuracy but if you mess up you have to reload. And your oponent have time to kill you.

Which change?

Reducing the effective range wouldn't lead to the peacekeeper becoming basically an EVA-8. Peacekeeper would still be about burst damage while the EVA-8 would be about sustained damage for CQC, mostly due to fire rate and reload speeds not clip/mag size.

Making the peacekeeper have only 2 shots even with current damage turns it into garbage.

Making the peacekeeper 3-4 shots and people will still complain it's to easy to 2-3 shot players, complain more about the game being a "reload simulator" (not quoting you), OR that they can just reload behind cover just like they can peek out for short period between shots. hell 3 shots is still enough to knock all 3 players in a squad if they've all been in a fight. No to mention 3 shots would just be awkward af when the model clearly shows the ability to have at least 4 shots.

Making the peacekeeper do 80 base damage (-30 damage from current) will still have players complain it's to easy to be 1 shot headshot by it as a fresh drop OR 3 shotting purple armor (assuming it has more than 2 shots)

People are going to complain about the weapon regardless of what stats it has unless it's complete garbage. It is not an issue that a shotgun is good at close range, that is exactly what it is supposed to be. Being to good at mid range though? yeah that's a problem that needs addressed. Being to good at taking down a full squad? I'm sorry but if a single player rushes 3 people and gets all 3 of them before they got knocked down themselves they 100% earned it regardless of what weapon they were using.

@Comanglia 
It will. The peacemaker and the eva will be the weapon that you pick to short range and pray to shot the enemy and get a HS.

As strange as it sounds if you add spray to the peacekeeper it will be even better. Because it will be easier to jump around and hit people until they die with it.

And like i said Peacekeeper with 2 shots will make it a finesse weapon. Saying it will be garbage doesn't tell half of the truth, because it will still be a strong weapon but it will be a rewarding weapon. Unlike it's right now that users range from people that just started to players that play 12h+ every day.

All the changes you guys try to do "spread, rof, damage, blablabla" is all good in the paper but the player will look at it and see "oh so it's a eva-9 now". Because in the paper they will be different weapons but the player will see it as the same weapon where you change 2 ammo to some extra damage.

---

@Comanglia wrote:

"The Peacekeeper makes every single gun at close range irrelevant. You will not beat it with any AR, Sniper, Smg, or Pistol in the game." - MagmaticWolf

Oh really?

Quick scope headshot from the Kraber. Sniper ✓

G7-Scout does over 50 damage on headshot even to purple helmet and has a rate of fire almost 5x higher. Sniper again ✓

R-99 has the 2nd highest non-headshot DPS in the game (minus mastiff). SMG ✓

Devotion has the highest headshot or bodyshot DPS in the game. LMG ✓ (assuming turbo charger)

R-301 has the 2nd hightest headshot DPS in the game (minus mastiff). AR ✓

Wingman has a higher fire rate and with skull piercing attachment does at least 84 damage on each headshot. Pistol ✓

Looks like you're wrong on all accounts.

Quick run down on TTK for each one of the above

assumptions made

purple helmet

full purple armor

full HP

100% accuracy / 100% of pellets hit

Peacekeeper assuming all pellets hit (headshot or not doesn't matter) = 1.03s

Kraber quickscope headshot = instant

G7-Scout all headshots = ~0.88s

G7-Scout all bodyshots = ~1.32s

R-99 all headshots = ~0.71s

R-99 all bodyshots = ~0.88s

Devotion all headshots = ~0.46s (assuming turbo charger)

Devotion all bodyshots = ~0.73s (assuming turbo charger)

R-301 all headshots = ~0.75s

R-301 all bodyshots = ~1.17s

Wingman all headshots = ~0.59s (assuming skull piercing)

Wingman all bodyshots = ~1.17s

BONUS peacekeeper can lose in TTK to the EVA-8 as well *

EVA-8 all headshots = ~0.94s

EVA-8 all bodyshots = ~1.41s

The only thing the peacekeeper needs done about it is have a slightly larger pellet spread so it isn't as good at range.

---

Comparing straight DPS is irrelevant.   Someone with a peacekeeper can pop out from a corner, instantly do max damage, and be back to cover before someone with "highest dps xyz" weapon can get a couple bullets out, thus making the high dps moot.

---

@OmniVan wrote:

---

@Comanglia wrote:

"The Peacekeeper makes every single gun at close range irrelevant. You will not beat it with any AR, Sniper, Smg, or Pistol in the game." - MagmaticWolf

Oh really?

Quick scope headshot from the Kraber. Sniper ✓

G7-Scout does over 50 damage on headshot even to purple helmet and has a rate of fire almost 5x higher. Sniper again ✓

R-99 has the 2nd highest non-headshot DPS in the game (minus mastiff). SMG ✓

Devotion has the highest headshot or bodyshot DPS in the game. LMG ✓ (assuming turbo charger)

R-301 has the 2nd hightest headshot DPS in the game (minus mastiff). AR ✓

Wingman has a higher fire rate and with skull piercing attachment does at least 84 damage on each headshot. Pistol ✓

Looks like you're wrong on all accounts.

Quick run down on TTK for each one of the above

assumptions made

purple helmet

full purple armor

full HP

100% accuracy / 100% of pellets hit

Peacekeeper assuming all pellets hit (headshot or not doesn't matter) = 1.03s

Kraber quickscope headshot = instant

G7-Scout all headshots = ~0.88s

G7-Scout all bodyshots = ~1.32s

R-99 all headshots = ~0.71s

R-99 all bodyshots = ~0.88s

Devotion all headshots = ~0.46s (assuming turbo charger)

Devotion all bodyshots = ~0.73s (assuming turbo charger)

R-301 all headshots = ~0.75s

R-301 all bodyshots = ~1.17s

Wingman all headshots = ~0.59s (assuming skull piercing)

Wingman all bodyshots = ~1.17s

BONUS peacekeeper can lose in TTK to the EVA-8 as well *

EVA-8 all headshots = ~0.94s

EVA-8 all bodyshots = ~1.41s

The only thing the peacekeeper needs done about it is have a slightly larger pellet spread so it isn't as good at range.

---

Comparing straight DPS is irrelevant.   Someone with a peacekeeper can pop out from a corner, instantly do max damage, and be back to cover before someone with "highest dps xyz" weapon can get a couple bullets out, thus making the high dps moot.

---

Lol i think corner play is the classic use of shotgun. CS Go, pubg, fortnite, battlefield, cod or any shooter game out there will feature this.

Still not OP in mentioned games.

Shotguns in PUBG, and Blackout are High reward, High Risk, pubg has the double Barrel (2rounds) and the Pump action shotgun (5 rounds), and COD Blackout have Mog12(4rounds) and sg12(6 rounds) every shotgun have great damage but you need to get super close to someone to get a good shot in those games, nothing like PK on apex, PK its a High Reward Low Risk Weapon because even at 10-15meters range, PK hit 50-80 damage without a choke and there's almost no difference between ads and hip-fire, at this range that damage is half of the HP with a Blue shield, PK have 6 shots, non of the other shotguns have that many rounds and insane damage at mid range, another difference is that on pubg and Cod blackout get closer to someone is a risky move, in apex a pathfinder, wraith or an octane can use their ultimate moves and get you closer with almost no risk.

The PK need some kind of nerf:

.-Remove the pellet size increase buff, PK never needed that buff, i think this is the main reason why is stupidly OP right now, stills needed a nerf before that change.

.-Reduce the pellet damage by 3. body: 77, headshot-132, leg-55, increase dispersion by 40% on ads and 60% on hip fire, reduce magazine size to 4, reduce fire rate to 0.70 and remove the choke from PK.

This changes will increase the risk of using it, and will remove the mid-long range capabilities and the pk will still be a very good weapon at close range.

I'm open to hear arguments or changes to my proposal.

I expect most that want the PK removed are R99 users.

@Sir_NamedTThose stats are old, this is very old, i don't think that Pk should be removed but needs a nerf, an ammo reduction and keep the same damage. To increase risk and keep the high reward.