When will Respawn finally listen?

@The7O2GuySolo mode actually made squads much better with a lot less solo droppers and players leaving the match very early which is a problem only getting worse as time goes on.

I'm not personally bothered about solos myself but if it improves the current mode i'm already in then i'm all for that and understand why people would just want to jump into an even 1v1 BR experience when the current format we have is atrocious for solo players. Given that we have very limited modes to play anyway then having more choice isn't necessarily a bad thing.

The argument that legends aren't balanced for solos has been recently proven wrong with all the changes to abilities since solo was last introduced.

You get the usual ''just find a squad'' excuse from those rejecting the idea but what about those that have a squad or family/friends that just aren't the same skill level? My little brother can't compete at all in my lobbies and i must currently drop him for those that can keep up or play solo squads with dead weights anyway thanks to the genius SBMM we currently have. If you don't want solo for yourself then that's fine but to not let others have a mode that won't effect you makes very little sense.

Also, ''the data'' that it has a negative effect on player retention was only collected during the Iron Crown event which had people leaving the game or not playing as much due to other grievances completely unrelated to solos and if they rereleased the LTM and the data was the same then that argument would hold more weight but until then.. Nope.

@apostolateofDOOM 

"The argument that legends aren't balanced for solos has been recently proven wrong with all the changes to abilities since solo was last introduced."

??? How do you get from that "changes to abilities since last solo LTM", to "that legends are unbalanced for solo mode is proven wrong"?? 

You also claim that the "negative data" collected from last solo LTM originated from "other grievances completely unrelated to solo" What makes you claim something like that? How do you even remotely know that this statement is true? Just curious. Because I presume that you realize that if you actually claim these things are proven and true, then you consequently also claim that Respawn are either incompetent of interpreting their own collected data OR that they are lying .

@BalladalidilaIt's been shown how abilities are more equal in regards to solo mode compared to how they were back then balance wise at least, with a few exceptions. You could even do that yourself.

How can they claim solo mode was the cause of lower player retention when the only time they had it implemented was when people were frustrated with the game and leaving in droves anyway. Without having it a second time to compare, the data is only being said to reinforce the point that they wanted to keep Apex a team based shooter before they introduced the LTM or if solos was popular. It's not part of their vision for the game, irrespective of what the community wants.

It was pretty unanimous back then in discussions both with friends and on the forum that squads was in a much better state with the addition of solos. For you to say that's not the case would make you a small exception and the damage badge is hardly the the only or even main reason people leave when knocked.

Edit: Keeping my post the same to cover the points you edited out.

@Balladalidila 

This is a bad take. Let me pretend your argument isn't terrible for a second and seriously consider the idea that this is a team based game.

If I created a team based game (i.e. one that was meant to be played with 1 or more characters) I would consider punishing people leaving matches early. The number of times I see people leave IMMEDIATELY after being downed is something like 60%. They drop, get downed within 30 seconds and are gone within seconds. Those people get to leave and start a new game where perhaps their luck will be better (probably not, they are likely trash). I get left short one member. If Trios, once one person leaves, chances of the second person leaving skyrockets, leaving me alone in a trios game.

I'm good enough that I can take on two people (sometimes simultaneously with the right set up) but three is generally too many for me to consistently pull off. I have 2 options.

1. Continue the game alone at a significant disadvantage

2. Leave the game as well.

Meanwhile the people that leave suffer exactly ZERO consequences. You might even say that are better off. Often the length of time it takes to get revived is longer than simply getting in a new game. Also, when being revived, you have painted a giant "COME F$%^ ME" sign on your back, which generally will lead to a lower KDA.

If they care about "team" anything, why is this the case?

@sixcloud 

I said that Apex is a game with team based characters. The OP implied that Apex SHOULD have solos only because all other major BRs have it (which is a ridiculous argument/logic to begin with); I just replied that Apex also is the only major BR that has the "hero approach", i.e different characters with unique traits and abilities that are tweaked to be balanced in a team game, not for solo modes. 

And just for the record; Apex is a team based game IF you play it like any team based game should be played, i.e with a team. Get some premades and you will have a great time as a team. I think its just silly to complain about the lack of team play if you choose to jump into games as a solos and randomly get matched with two strangers, most likely with other ideas and preferences how to play this game. 

@apostolateofDOOM 

You didnt answer any of my questions.  You just reiterated your exact same thing. "Its been shown", "It was pretty unanimous back then", "people were frustrated with the game and leaving in droves anyways (implied; not solos fault)".  My point is that you present random statements as hard facts when I think you have no actual proof or statistics that can back it up. 

I mean, I could agree that Respawn, since the solo LTM, continuously have reduced the "personal buffs" of certain Legends and reworked them to be more team-oriented/tactical. Pathfinders and Wraiths Q rework and the removal of Lifelines fast heal passive are some examples. But to go from that, to claim that solos would be more balanced now compared to back then, is far fetched at best. 

But anyways; I would have nothing against if they had Solos as LTM one more time and I am actually dont really care if they added it even though I personally would never play it. What I am arguing against is all people who refuse to accept that Respawn probably knows how to interoperate the data and statistics to make the right call about solos than some random guy on an internet forum who think they "speak for the community", thats all. 

@Balladalidila 

Let's do some critical thinking for a second, the statement from respawn had a vague "hurt new player retention" reasoning as well as talking about some legends being useless.

Hurt new player retention? It was a two week long optional event, how could that hurt new player retention anymore then any of the ridiculous LTMs that were added? No one was being forced to play solos, so what maybe que times were an issue? Since then they have added crossplay which drastically improved que times. So what arguement can be made about new player retention? Especially since they have never put solos back in as a test since that event 1.5 years ago.

Some legends being useless, the only one I can think of for this is lifeline. Her abilities are purely team based especially since they removed her fast healing. But other than her, what other legend is useless solo? I got a win on every legend during that event and lifeline was the only one that felt useless.

What about the ways it can improve this game? Why not at the very least add solos for a season and get some real data in? Since respawn refuses to punish players who hurt their team (outside of ranked) solos needs to be added.

Its great that you have groups that you can play with that are all on your level, I don't have that and its not from lack of trying. Just because you can play with a solid premade team, why should solos not be added for those who don't have that option? I never thought that I speak for the community as a whole, but I know a lot of people with this sentiment.

@Balladalidila It has been shown in previous discussions. I don't have a link to provide you as i don't remember the thread but as i said, you can work it out yourself that most legends would have some or more or less even utility for them to compete in solos unlike before when less than a handful would be the go to and have a large advantage over others. 

If i see a positive impact in trios and people i discuss with have a noticeably positive impact (very active back then amongst more than just a few circles in Apex) and people come to the forums and other platforms online who also say they noticed a difference and the logic backs up that point then it doesn't take much to see how and why there was an improvement.

I had much less than half of my matches with leavers back then with solos (around roughly 10-15% to hazard a guess but not exceeding 25%) to the vast majority (probably more than 90%) now. Unlike what you said in your previously removed post of ''most leavers only do so because of the damage badge'' or along those lines, which is a poor argument and doesn't even address the main cause of people leaving. This is also in contrast to your ''feeling'' that basically explains how squads plays out now anyway so surely some potential improvement is better than nothing?

I wouldn't call it a random statement without any evidence either that people were leaving during those few weeks of IC. Just check anywhere online that Apex lost a lot of players during that event that cheesed off many more that did stay and understandably so.  Frustration for Apex was high during that event and it had absolutely nothing to do with solos. In fact it was one of its only redeeming qualities.  I can quite confidently say that. 

I don't need to be privy to any data or claim to speak for the community when basically everyone was saying the same thing. You provide ANY ''hard data or evidence'' that solos would have ANY negative effect on squads excluding que times now they left it so long and introduced duos since because i could find posts how it had a positive impact. Edit: I'm not searching for them as it would take up to much time but you can do that yourself too here on AHQ if you wish.

Your reasoning is the kind that EA applies that prevents us getting server improvements and we get the usual ''lets go through some troubleshooting'' instead of addressing the actual problem.

There's more than enough public data for that though.. 😛

Lastly, yes i do think Respawn are incompetent but not because of how they interpret their data but the actions they take from it. They have a vision for this game and you and I how zero influence in how that will play out which is not how a healthy relationship is built (or should be) between community and developers. It's very much a get what you're given and be grateful for what you get.. This is also partially related to the IC event with only small improvements with communication from the devs since but after the backlash they received, i understand why.

Don't forget they viewed IC as a huge success from their ''data'' because of player engagement and financial gains, which also speaks volumes.

We all know many of the various advantages and disadvantages about having Solo.

BUT, it certainly would be great, so we don't have to rely on anyone but ourselves in the game, because we all know too how bad match making is in the game, and how bad playing with randoms can be.

Regardless of all the various advantages and disadvantages, Solo would be great, so we can just do it alone, no one else standing in our way!

Honestly, putting three randoms together in a team doesn't change the fact that a lot of randoms still play solo in the team-based mode.

Most of them are self-centered and do not care about teamwork, pinging or waiting more than two seconds to get revived.

That kind of behaviour is spreading like wildfire because there are no obligations towards your teammates and there are no repercussions when you're a d*ck and drop solo, leave early or trashtalk all the time.