Ranked

The assumption / fact that game is currently being sponsored more by casuals vs sweats = yeah, 99,999% sure of that.
At the same time:
A) EA probably knew what they were doing making the game like it is now = we all just have to accept the facts and situation
B) theoretically EA or any other developer could solve the financing part in other methods it is just a matter of willingness / ability to do so = not sure if argument "casuals finance the game so they can "cry" about everything" is very sensible :) I mean clean up hackers + give me lobbies with sweats only = I will pay to play.

Also a tendency which I see from "not sweats" is a bit contradicting:
- on the one hand these casual players "want to have fun", not compete
- on the other hand you still hear about ranking, stats, damage etc. = competitive metrics
So what is it? Compete or not compete :D
It almost feels like many people want to somehow end up in TOP 1% player rank, get all the glory without sweating a thing, f top 1% people complain that even Gold is hard to get which is bottom 30?% of a playerbase...

Pubs since I have started gaming in early 2000s always has been about "fun" = you just come in, point and shoot, run around kinda on autopilot until you bored and go do other stuff. At the same time there always have been some much better players in lobbies warming up for ranked or whatever basically farming pub servers.
Honestly I am not even sure why people talk about SBMM and PUBS combination. IMO people should be put in pubs just by "first come first served" as it IS NOT competitive mode. It CAN BE PLAYED as one, but then again it is not a matter of SBMM rather than attitude and effort - some will play pubs drunk and stoned, some will adjust their gaming chair and sweat like crazy playing them, you can't make either of the parties not to...

What people who "cry" about game being too competitive, hard should imo do is to get their record straight:
1. understand their skill ceiling and accept the fact that with the current level of skill you get to X rank and then you will get "hardstuck", that's how this system works and it is ok
2. understand that if they want to have easier time, rank up training will be needed = work on your aim, game awareness, adjust settings, even change hardware, if none is done, skill will remain the same and probably yield the same result assuming player base skill remains the same as well
3. play for playing the game not for rewards or cosmetics, that is just a byproduct

Given above said life in Apex will become less stressful :)

Wow.  Lots to unpack here.

--> "The assumption / fact that game is currently being sponsored more by casuals vs sweats = yeah, 99,999% sure of that.
At the same time:
A) EA probably knew what they were doing making the game like it is now = we all just have to accept the facts and situation
B) theoretically EA or any other developer could solve the financing part in other methods it is just a matter of willingness / ability to do so = not sure if argument "casuals finance the game so they can "cry" about everything" is very sensible :) I mean clean up hackers + give me lobbies with sweats only = I will pay to play."

The game is certainly supported by casuals as I think their numbers are far greater.  Not sure what you mean by "cry" about everything.  Is that like pros/content creators and people who think it should be all sweats "crying" about items/buffs and allowing casuals to play?  Same thing?  Not very constructive is it?

Also, if you get high enough in ranked I would imagine you would be in lobbies with all sweats anyway; so isn't there already a solution to that?  I doubt there are many casuals in Masters and above.

Great that you will "pay to play"... you really think all the sweats are willing to do that and the game will survive?  Interesting.  Any evidence for this?

--> "Also a tendency which I see from "not sweats" is a bit contradicting:
- on the one hand these casual players "want to have fun", not compete
- on the other hand you still hear about ranking, stats, damage etc. = competitive metrics
So what is it? Compete or not compete :D
It almost feels like many people want to somehow end up in TOP 1% player rank, get all the glory without sweating a thing, f top 1% people complain that even Gold is hard to get which is bottom 30?% of a playerbase..."

Watching your stats and seeing it improve over time is rewarding.  Just logging on with your mates for a sesh doesn't make you "super competitive" and the statement that many people want to somehow imagine they will end up in the top 1% rank is ridiculous.     I have no illusions that's not going to happen as does everyone I play with.  I have no idea where that statement comes from.  Just because you play casual does not mean you are automatically "uber competitive".  There isn't a contradiction here.  I think the distinction is "casual" vs "sweat".  By definition a sweat is going to be far more obsessed with this than I am as a "casual".  You can have both.  They aren't mutually exclusive.  You sound pretty elitist and "gatekeepy" with this and I don't really understand why.  Like preaching the one "twue way" to play.  Ridiculous.

"want to have fun" equating to "not competing" suggests that you don't have fun... which is it? 

--> "Pubs since I have started gaming in early 2000s always has been about "fun" = you just come in, point and shoot, run around kinda on autopilot until you bored and go do other stuff. At the same time there always have been some much better players in lobbies warming up for ranked or whatever basically farming pub servers.
Honestly I am not even sure why people talk about SBMM and PUBS combination. IMO people should be put in pubs just by "first come first served" as it IS NOT competitive mode. It CAN BE PLAYED as one, but then again it is not a matter of SBMM rather than attitude and effort - some will play pubs drunk and stoned, some will adjust their gaming chair and sweat like crazy playing them, you can't make either of the parties not to..."

Well I strongly disagree with your opinion unless your objective is to get people like me (and many others) to just leave the game.  If I'm in lobbies constantly where I am just pub stomped and smashed every encounter that would directly affect my playtime.  When matchmaking was far worse in the past my 2 hr sessions would turn into 35 mins if the lobbies were grossly unbalanced.  SBMM is what makes games at least playable.  The fun is feeling like you are "in it" during a fight - that is you have a chance.  I am not sure how putting people in lobbies where they are continuously smashed is a good gaming experience for anyone and it won't help with your player retention as many will play less or just quit... I mean, what's the point?  You don't see that?  You are happy promoting a system that will give totally unbalanced lobbies and the people who continuously are on the losing end of it have a crap experience virtually every time?  That's cool?  That seems to be literally what you are promoting... unless your objective is, of course, to get people to quit.

I feel for new players starting out on Apex now.  The learning curve is high and the game has a large mature playing base that has been on for awhile.  It must be very difficult.

--> "What people who "cry" about game being too competitive, hard should imo do is to get their record straight:
1. understand their skill ceiling and accept the fact that with the current level of skill you get to X rank and then you will get "hardstuck", that's how this system works and it is ok
2. understand that if they want to have easier time, rank up training will be needed = work on your aim, game awareness, adjust settings, even change hardware, if none is done, skill will remain the same and probably yield the same result assuming player base skill remains the same as well
3. play for playing the game not for rewards or cosmetics, that is just a byproduct"

Ah, more "crying".  Pretty toxic choice of word dude.  My issue was with the ranked experience, it was answered in another post as I mentioned.  Nothing to do with "crying" about being "too competitive". 

Anyway, I consider this thread dead now.  I don't really see how to take this conversation forward.

Most sensible response here.  It's exactly like pubs, you're right.  If there is no RP at risk then they just play the pub way.  Good call.

Dude the main thing which is contradicting / "crying" comment related is - where you draw that magical line of Pubs / Ranked / whatever mode being "too competitive" for casuals?
That is my biggest issue - it is subjective af.

To be objective you have to have clear goals, rules.
If you are casual imo you don't care about stats, I am sweat and I don't care about stats. If you do, then comment on clear, objective rules e.g. Pubs should contain players with X, Y, Z, based on metrics...

At the moment I am hearing that you (similar to many more) are ok with competition as long as you are winning or not losing too often, for sure not getting stompped which imo is not feasible in games like Apex:
1. as I said the effort people give will vary greatly and you just have to deal with that
2. to determine player's rank there will be still games were better/worse player will be matched in multiple games vs inappropriate rank to determine his skill level, adjust MMR or whatever metrics -> multiple that by smurfing/hacking situation, 300-600000 active players, number of games played ... basically you will be lucky to get balanced lobby on random occasions but most of the time game will feel unfair
3. finally there is a saying "if you enter competition, be ready to lose" this is imo the main thing missing from "casual" player's mentality. you always want some sort of safety net even for pubs :)

Regarding financing part - I did not say that sweats will finance the game, I said I would pay if needed. Otherwise I am ok with games dying, switching to other games (just did that for 3 month to Valorant, adjusted my settings, game style, enjoyed the game for a few months) etc. Nothing is perfect nor will last eternity nor maybe should last eternity.

As for sweats in higher ranked - no, that is my biggest gripe with ranked system since season 15. It just allows too many casuals to spill into now Diamond level. Diamond now contains ~30% of a ranked player base vs <15% at times even <10% in the past which imo was more realistic. Some 10 seasons ago Master's badge meant something, nowadays I view ranked as follows and if compiled data will back it up:
- anything below D4 = total casual that should not play ranked at all, does not have skill, awareness, competitive spirit, just runs and guns
- D4-D1 = what used to be average / high Platinum level player in the past = somewhat capable of the above said
- Masters (16-20k) = either ratting / boosted D4-D1 or hacker or in some cases indeed legit good player
- Masters 20k+ / Pred = pretty much 90%+ hackers, boosted players with questionable (no recoil) control and other package deals

Long story short - in ranked soloq you basically can't find a decent and legit player. For the past week of daily 4+h grin I can tell I have had like 3 normal humans I played with who were decent and good human beings that can communicate and play accordingly.

So all I am saying is that people have to accept that sooner or later depending on your skill set and given environment things will get tough and rough, because it is competitive game at its basis. There is no eternal growth or eternal "don't make me sweat" matchmaking. Plus there are so many factors - one day you are locked in, one totally off and that would yield totally different game experiences. Stop "crying", getting stomped -> improve or quit the game -> come back later or switch it.

"cry" harder with your elitist and "one true way" philosophy.  "anything below D4 = total casual that should not play ranked at all," says it all.  You are super special.  Only people who meet your test should dare to play different modes.  And even then at higher levels you kind of hint it's not worth it so... what then?  You contradict yourself constantly.  

Do you read what you write?  Are you not embarrassed in the least?  I'm literally laughing at this as it's so ludicrous.  More experienced than you, older, and wiser.  And it totally shows here.  So should ratting players be allowed to play?  That's ok?  Read what you wrote and say it out loud to yourself.  Laughing.  You do you bro.  Be thankful your universe does not come into fruition as you would not have a game to play as your fantasy world pretty much eliminates most of the player base.  Don't start a company.  Pro tip.

You must be trolling :D

Don't let your emotions take over your logical brain ;) All I am saying is and can be fact proven, no blurry lines and sh, clear facts.

E.g. Typical D4 level player will complain how bad everyone is but more often than not:
a) will have bad (for Diamond at least old standard ranked system Diamond) level mechanics
b) will have 0 or close to that hours invested in aim training be it on MNK or adjusting controller sensitivity etc, just play standard DPI or 4-3 linear because "everyone does so"
c) hardly if ever will record his games and review them and see if and when he f-up
d) will not follow game, rotations just shoot what's in front or more often die and ask "where did that came from"

And the list goes one.

If you competitive what ranked is you have goals -> when you reach them -> you set new ones and continue competing. Rest is not competition, just participation to get "participation medals for all" and ranked just does not give those out in Apex, instead you get -65 RP each game in D4+. And that's normal.

Finally about "one right way" doing things: dude I play ranked super competitive and people might have problem with that, I don't. I come to pubs, I play super competitive, people might have problems with that I don't, sometimes I play pubs casually and it's ok for me not to have whatever stats because I don't care about stats especially when playing pubs.
Long story short I can do both and I cry about neither -> casuals can't really do anything besides running and gunning and cry about everything else :)

Only thing I would like this game to improve is hackers and smurfs to make top level games more honest at the same time kept playing lobbies like this today for 3+h game after game after game and still in almost D2 level :)

It was not pleasant but it was kinda fun unless #18 current Pred just hacked the s out of me and my team :) But that's ok, he probably has other problems in life too :)

Look me up... I would play with you anytime. Currently Bronze III, I got to silver I, last season playing with friends who have all quit due to all the cheating.  I enjoy playing ranked with players that talk to their teammates in game.  I am an older player and don't like those that hot drop, rush alone into a squad, die in 5 seconds, then quit.  I have had many second place games where I am 1 v 3 at the end when others have quit on me. Also don't like the Smurfers that are in a Bronze lobby at level 10 with Predator, Master, and Diamond badges on the profile.  Be aware there are those with ADD that yell at family, play music, watch videos and constantly talk in game.  I mute them,..  LOL

Nope, no trolling.  Just horrified by your view.

Elitist.  Gatekeeping.  You clearly think you are super-special.

Casuals shouldn't play.  Pubs should be just matched with anyone making wildly unbalanced lobbies.

I am glad nobody listens to you; there would be nobody left as I would have quit ages ago as would have thousands of others if their experience is just getting smashed game after game after game which seems to be reasonable to you.  I honestly have no idea what universe you live in where this is remotely a good idea; unless you just want anyone not worthy of your praise to quit.  That seems to be the point.

I honestly don't get it.  You seem to want to to go out of your way to make peoples experience with the game as poor as possible.  How does that benefit you?  Where on the dolly did the n00b player hurt you?  How does it hurt you if worse players are matched up against each other without you?  How does that affect the game negatively for you exactly?  Don't feel special then?

Pretty horrific.