Re: Snap Tracking at it's Best!

The 880 and 428 are getting abused right now. It makes no sense to have weapons like that with aim assist. 

Anyone easily can see how console players are performing vs MnK players just by using accuracy and HS% rates that are publically available. 

I have played with several streamers, some who play on console and some who play on PC, and I would say relative skill-wise, they are very comparable. However, accuracy stats tell a totally different story. Here are two I just played with the other day:

PC Player - KD 8.9, HS% 14.6% (led server using VHX-D3)
Console Player - KD 3.9, HS% 21.7% (led server using the 880)

On almost every weapon, the console players have both better accuracy AND better HS% by several percent. So if they were to encounter each other head to head, the console player will win more times than not, every time. 

Then I compared the console numbers to one of the best PC players in the game, someone who has a ridiculous amount of hours in the game, and was one of the first to hit S999. When above-average console players have better accuracy and HS% than him, that's a problem. The playing field is not even.

Would someone post the settings that these console players use to gain these super snap/auto aim abilities?

I would like to test them out. 

@AdamonicThe aim-assist does not snap to heads. It only snaps to bodies, which is one of the downsides of using it. The single and only major benefit from aim-assist is getting to snap to someone's body, so it basically only benefits extremely low TTK weapons, like shotguns which are instant or DMRs. And that's why you are suddenly seeing a ton of people using the M39 EMR.

That data is meaningless. Assuming aim-assist even factored into headshots, it would still be meaningless because you didn't provide a total number of kills. And even with a total number of kills, it would, yet again, still be meaningless. Skilled players should have around a ~25-30% HS rate TOTAL, as in, of every single kill they have ever gotten with all weapons. In a single match? That could be 50-60% HS kill rate, if they didn't get a ton of kills. The more kills they have in a match, the lower that number will go, so I would be willing to bet that PC player killed significantly more than the console player. I also bet I've had some matches with ~90% headshot kill rates when I've been sniping, honestly. And that still means absolutely nothing. Hell, I have a 30% HS kill rate with the AK24 over 500 kills and a 76.5% HS kill rate with the DXR over 100 kills on PC. Compared to such a tiny sample size as in a single match, 21% isn't even that high of a HS rate when many people can have well over that amount for their entire lifetime stats.

Plus, how do you even know it was a console player? If they had the Xbox icon, it could have been someone playing through GamePass on PC.

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@SVND0WN wrote:

@AdamonicThe aim-assist does not snap to heads. It only snaps to bodies, which is one of the downsides of using it.

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That's just absurd. So you wouldn't mind it being tuned back down in line with the other Battlefield games then?

Snapping to a target is such a huge advantage, and how do you think PC players aim exactly? We don't just snap to people and lock onto their heads either. I primarily aim for center mass and the recoil will naturally pull you up towards their head a bit. If someone is head-glitching or I can only see their head, then yeah, that's what I'm aiming at. It's much safer and easier to be consistent when aiming for center mass however.

Let's also not ignore the fact that controller players get a 25% reduction in recoil. You get snap onto target, which is 4x the distance of previous BF games, and then you also have a 25% reduction of recoil! To further help you stay on target, you also get slow-down and finally rotational assist. While PC players get absolutely ZERO assist.

The problem isn't just Console players, it's people using controllers. On Console you can only use a controller, so it's safe to assume that's what people are using, and it's just the easiest to correlate some of these crazy shots people are pulling off with controllers. Just to throw it in there, you can use MnK on Console as well with a Xim or other devices. You have access to many different cheap products that reduce the recoil further.

The statistics do matter and are accurate. You can look up different stats for different games, but generally controller players with strong assist mechanics do out perform mouse players on raw accuracy stats. There's a lot of different things that go into being a good FPS player, and aiming is just one of them, but it is one the most important factors.

Even if you have the best decision making, and great positioning, if you can't land shots, you're not going to do that well either. It's not that Console players or controller players are vastly outperforming mouse players in a round. It's that out of my 10 deaths that round 8 of them felt extremely cheap and unavoidable. There was nothing to learn from that experience, nor is there anything I can change to better myself. I'm getting tracked through the edge of the wall before I can even see them, and they're killing me with ANY weapon in one update.

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@RaginSam wrote:

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@SVND0WN wrote:

@AdamonicThe aim-assist does not snap to heads. It only snaps to bodies, which is one of the downsides of using it.

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Snapping to a target is such a huge advantage, and how do you think PC players aim exactly? We don't just snap to people and lock onto their heads either. I primarily aim for center mass and the recoil will naturally pull you up towards their head a bit. If someone is head-glitching or I can only see their head, then yeah, that's what I'm aiming at. It's much safer and easier to be consistent when aiming for center mass however.

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But y'all get to use your whole entire arm vs our poor little thumbs KEKL /s

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@SVND0WN wrote:
@RaginSamIf you are always aiming center mass, then that's you, it has nothing to do with pc vs. console aim assist. You will get outgunned every single time by someone that is only hitting your head while you are aiming center of mass and hoping the gun will aim for you instead.

Aim assist to body is okay on most weapons. It is too much on low or alpha TTK weapons, such as DMRs and shotguns. The tolerances need to be tweaked for each weapon class and then aim assist will be totally fine.

And I have no idea what universe you are living in where console players with controllers are "statistically" better than MnK players. You don't see esports players giving up MnK to use a controller vs. MnK players. This sounds like a giant you issue. The aim assist isn't even close to how bad you are making it out to be, even though it is definitely a problem on specific weapons.

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It's not a "me" thing. It's how people aim. I've been playing shooters all my life and depending on the game, you aim for center mass. In slower, more tactical type games like CSGO or Valorant is when you'd typically aim for the head specifically. The faster the movement, the more you aim for center mass. It really depends on the game and situation. There's a lot of nuance to that conversation if we're actually going to focus on that.

Why should there be any assist that snaps you onto target to begin with? How strong should it be? Why is it significantly stronger in BF2042? The problem is that no controller/console player ever wants to concede that any of the assist maybe too strong. They never want to compromise in the slightest.

You must not follow esports then. How many players, that play for money mind you, have switched to using controllers in Apex, Fornite, and COD? One of the most successful Apex pros switched to a controller last year because it was much easier to be consistent with it. Halo Infinite, and I've heard the others as well, is nearly impossible to be competitive when using a mouse. The aim assist is just way too strong to compete with.

In Halo specifically, controller players have FAR higher accuracy stats then similarly ranked mouse players. You can look that one up yourself and find that graph, it's very easy to find. 

Would someone post the settings that these console players use to gain these super snap/auto aim abilities?

I would like to test them out.

I'm being serious

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@SVND0WN wrote:

@AdamonicThe aim-assist does not snap to heads. It only snaps to bodies, which is one of the downsides of using it. The single and only major benefit from aim-assist is getting to snap to someone's body, so it basically only benefits extremely low TTK weapons, like shotguns which are instant or DMRs. And that's why you are suddenly seeing a ton of people using the M39 EMR.

That data is meaningless. Assuming aim-assist even factored into headshots, it would still be meaningless because you didn't provide a total number of kills. And even with a total number of kills, it would, yet again, still be meaningless. Skilled players should have around a ~25-30% HS rate TOTAL, as in, of every single kill they have ever gotten with all weapons. In a single match? That could be 50-60% HS kill rate, if they didn't get a ton of kills. The more kills they have in a match, the lower that number will go, so I would be willing to bet that PC player killed significantly more than the console player. I also bet I've had some matches with ~90% headshot kill rates when I've been sniping, honestly. And that still means absolutely nothing. Hell, I have a 30% HS kill rate with the AK24 over 500 kills and a 76.5% HS kill rate with the DXR over 100 kills on PC. Compared to such a tiny sample size as in a single match, 21% isn't even that high of a HS rate when many people can have well over that amount for their entire lifetime stats.

Plus, how do you even know it was a console player? If they had the Xbox icon, it could have been someone playing through GamePass on PC.

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Snap to body + recoil of any weapon = HS. Also, the accuracy rates are similar in that the tracking of moving targets is very similar.

I was comparing known PC players and known console players that I have actually played with. All whom are really good in their own right. What I noticed was the console player had similar kills and KD but when it came to accuracy and HS%, he was higher than PC players and higher than literally the best PC players. There are obviously a lot of factors that go into those stats, preferred weapons, etc, but when I compared like weapons, the majority of the time, the console player had better stats across the board than the PC player. Not all the weapons, but majority of them. 

If aim assist is supposed to level the playing field, it should not make console players' aiming stats (accuracy and HS%) better than a comparable PC player, and definitely not make them better than the best PC player on the planet. I am an above-average player, have been playing FPS for a long time, have a 2.0 KD and top 1% PTFOing, yet I would be beaten 1v1 by at least 75% of console players when we are shooting at each other with the same weapon from the same distance solely due to aim assist. 

Seeing recent controller vids is just insane, it looks 100% like an aimbot at this point who looks at this and thinks yeah that looks fine. G428 very tricky on PC but you watch console any range just snaps and follows perfectly, where pc misses a few shots massively increasing TTK the controller just 2 taps anything. Beyond insane atm.

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@SVND0WN wrote:
@RaginSamIt is completely a you thing. I've been playing shooters competitively since Halo CE on PC in 2001 and UT2k4 after that. Even in UT2k4 you would always try to aim for the head (and this was a massive topic in the community because of how the headshot hitboxes were). Destiny 2 PVP currently has the most fast-paced FPS gameplay at a level that makes BF2042 look like it's a toddlers game and even in that you always go for headshots. Consistently landing headshots is what differentiates average players from the best players. It's what gives you the biggest advantage out of anything else because assuming all things equal, the first person to land a headshot always wins. It is the reason things like Aimlabs and Kovaaks exist. In BF2042, a headshot means one or even two bullets that you do not need to fire to score a kill even if you only land body shots after.

The assist doesn't give a significant advantage over PC with 90% of the guns in the game. On DMRs and shotguns specifically it can be abused in specific parts of specific maps. That's it. Otherwise, it could potentially put someone at a disadvantage at worst. It probably should not be increased any more than it currently is and the tolerances should be loosened when using DMRs in my opinion, but in the current state it is pretty fine. Shotguns don't matter because they aren't useful in the vast majority of scenarios.

Apex is a specific case because the aim assist physical rotates your character to face enemies. The aim assist in BF2042 isn't even remotely close to that. So yeah, it makes complete sense with how close up a lot of fights are in Apex that the aim assist there could be abused in really aggressive ways. Can't really speak on COD/Fortnite/Halo Infinite because I'm not interested in those games and haven't played them. If they also have the rotational aim assist then it would apply the same as with Apex, but that isn't even really a "controller vs. mnk" debate, it's a "using auto piloting aim assist vs. manual aim" debate at that point.

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If you can't admit that the snap onto target isn't over-tuned then we can't have a good faith discussion about it and there's nothing left for you and I to discuss. I also have a hard time taking someone serious that claims to have grown up playing arena shooters, but now prefers to play with a controller? If you truly played on PC for that long, and played at a high level, how on Earth do you end up preferring a controller to a mouse? It feels awful to me to use a controller once I got used to playing with a mouse. I grew up on console and played that for years. If I could only play shooters, but had to use a controller, I'd find a new hobby.

You refuse to use any nuance in this conversation. It's not a black and white topic when talking about aiming. It really depends on the game, weapon, how aggressive you're pushing, and so many other factors. I try to aim between the shoulders lined up with the mid-line of an enemy. So if you made a cross going from their head and across their shoulders, I aim for the middle of that. I call that center of mass, but others might call that something different. You can look up my stats and compare them to yours. I get head-shots plenty of the time and I must be doing something right. Your profile only has like 127 hours of playtime. Is that your only account?

I used to play a lot of Destiny 2 and mainly focused on PvP. I was top 500 in several different playlist and probably had somewhere around 4k hours in that game between a couple different accounts. D2 PvP is a complete joke, hence why I don't play it anymore. Peer to peer is just pure trash and is so easy to abuse. Tons of streamers from the EU would play on the NA servers and abuse the hell out of the P2P to gain a huge peekers advantage. Destiny also has bullet magnetism and some of the STRONGEST aim assist I've tried. I would argue that BF2042 plays a lot faster actually. Crank that FOV up and play Redacted.

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@SVND0WN wrote:
@AdamonicOkay, you are pretty much just making things up. https://battlefieldtracker.com/bf2042/leaderboards/stats/all/WeaponKills?page=1

Facts:

PC players significantly outnumber potential console players in weapon kills. (Xbox players could still be playing on PC through GamePass, so the differential could be even larger).

PC players have a fairly consistent ~4-5% higher HS kill rate than console players even with a massively higher number of weapon kills. (Excluding the players who are using body shot preferred weapons like the Ghostmaker and shotguns).

Console players simply do not have better stats than PC players. There is a healthy number of very skilled console players that are competing near the top, which is a GOOD SIGN. It means the game offers a somewhat fair playing field for all players. And those few samples of console players who have astronomical kill counts have a consistently lower HS% than the PC players of similar counts. Which is essentially the largest sample size you can compare, making it the most accurate.

K/D stats are more difficult to compare because there are tons of people fudging the stats by either exploiting or cheating or using vehicles. Most of the extremely high K/D players are reaching that by using the MAV or Little Bird for obvious reasons and that is irrelevant for console vs. PC.

The average console player absolutely does not outperform the average PC player. There are always outliers of either population, and that is a good thing, because it means that players on console are actually capable of competing if they are skilled enough. But they have significantly more hoops to jump through than a PC player to get there.

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What? I am not making anything up. I literally played with the players I am talking about, they are both on the leaderboards as top players. Comparing their stats, the console players have higher accuracy on most weapons and overall HS%. There is no way they can do that without aim assist. 

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@RaginSam wrote:

(...) If you truly played on PC for that long, and played at a high level, how on Earth do you end up preferring a controller to a mouse? It feels awful to me to use a controller once I got used to playing with a mouse. I grew up on console and played that for years. If I could only play shooters, but had to use a controller, I'd find a new hobby. (...)

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Well, the debate on the inherent difficulties in aiming with a controller vs. M&K is then over, isn't it...?

Nice, let's reduce the snap aim cooldown to 200ms which is faster than any TTK for SMG, AR, or LMGs, so the cooldown would be done before you kill the first target. 

https://twitter.com/BFBulletin/status/1725891148584026479?s=20

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@RaginSam wrote:
@AdamonicGotta love all these different aggressive tweaks to the assist mechanics so that the different input methods are “balanced”.

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It has no place in PvP games. Should be strictly for PvE and those with special needs. 

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@Adamonic wrote:

Nice, let's reduce the snap aim cooldown to 200ms which is faster than any TTK for SMG, AR, or LMGs, so the cooldown would be done before you kill the first target. 

https://twitter.com/BFBulletin/status/1725891148584026479?s=20

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I'm not a console player, can you explained what is to snap?

I saw that twitt but I dont know what is snap cooldown 🤒