Re: HUGE BUG!!! LESS FPS = EASIER CORNERING!

Even if this is would be a thing (that it actually works so that lower fps, less curb effect), the higher fps still gives other advantages than can make you faster, biggest advantage being less input lag, which increases accuracy of the controls.

I watched crossplay streams quite a bit during the beta weekends and I never saw any clear advantage from console players over PC, it was usually the opposite. 

Anyway, if this is true, IMO it's big problem only if proven in the hands of really skilled players. 

Interesting nevertheless and I would be really interestring to hear comments about this from the devs... It could be true, as that would explain why some players think some curbs are easier on xbox for example compared to PC (who run the game often on higher fps compared to consoles)

@IleleeeHere's a better demonstration of what @pet05ppl0uyv was showing in his video.

I set up the flashback so I had almost no input and hit the kerb in the same way every time, all I do is steer full left on controller.

Multiple flashbacks with unlocked and locked FPS to show consistency.

FPS is shown in the top left corner.

https://streamable.com/o6sy3c

It's not rng. Physics are tied to FPS and it affects kerbs.

Are you actually joking Codemasters right? What the hell is this? Fix it now!

I couldn't get this to reproduce in Career or Grand Prix mode, but got it to reproduce in time trial.

My guess is that the lower FPS means your game and the server are communicating slightly less frequently, so that you're "skipping" the frame / communication where the floor of the car hits the kerb.

Might have been my error in trying to reproduce, but I think it would make sense that the "online" versions would trigger slightly differently based on communications with the server.

This is the same reason / thinking that in shooters you want to play on a server with the highest tick rate possible, same with racing games, on lower FPS / tick rate servers (my assumption is that F1's servers are 64 tick rate at most) things can often feel "random", but in actuality can be reproduced reliably if something happens "between" frames or ticks of the server. Changing the FPS of the game itself on the client side effectively just doubles how wide the gap is that the thing can occur between.

Could anyone else test in GP or Career mode who has higher FPS (mine maxes at 100 or so) to see if it's occurring offline as well, or just online?

So do you think PS4/5 players with 60hz has an advantage over PS5 players with 120hz as well? 🤔

@CgSquall  Very good points and thanks for the information, though I was able to reproduce it in GP mode.

Short clip here, same as my previous just in GP mode with the same car setup.

https://streamable.com/1pz9fj

Hi everyone, 

We appreciate the reports on this. 

We've passed this along for a look. 

Hi there, thanks for that.

Here's an even better example of that bug, recreated with the same principle in mind.

This one is for those neglecting the fact that it actually is a thing: https://streamable.com/o6sy3c

Anybody tried this on F1 2021? Or on F1 22 on Series X, but switching between performance and quality mode (120fps vs 60fps), with VRR on and compatible screen of course?

If I have time later, I could try F1 22 on Series X myself, but if anybody beats me to it... 

In any case, doesn't look like curb RNG to me, if it's easyly to reproduced. Hard to imagine that this wouldn't affect anything else than just using the curbs... 

Sounds really serius issue, but I still have some doubts how much a problem it really is, considering general benefits of having higher fps in a racing game especially.  

LOL, Jarno and probably a lot of eSport guys on PSGL are running 60fps in the Monza race right now. Going over those curbs just like that...

@IleleeeYep, this is entertaining to watch. This needs to be fixed.

Edit: Clip from PSGL earlier today of Brendon Leigh talking about it possibly being fixed in a few weeks.

https://clips.twitch.tv/SincereSpunkyTubersResidentSleeper-Gx2MiHDMDxzn70Dh

He also talks about it for a minute here.

I'm curious what 'fixed' means in this context. Would 60fps physics/kerbs become the norm or will kerbs launch your car regardless of fps? From his comments it sounds like he's expecting the latter. I guess it doesn't matter either way really as long as it's consistent.

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@Crunchar wrote:

I'm curious what 'fixed' means in this context. Would 60fps physics/kerbs become the norm or will kerbs launch your car regardless of fps?

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I was thinking the same. I believe an expected consequence of the physics changes this year was to reduce the amount extreme corner cuts were unrealistically viable in the game so I suspect the goal would be to match the higher fps performance if possible. For eSports/online racing I guess what matters most is consistency though.

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@Ultrasonic_77 wrote:

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@Crunchar wrote:

I'm curious what 'fixed' means in this context. Would 60fps physics/kerbs become the norm or will kerbs launch your car regardless of fps?

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I was thinking the same. I believe an expected consequence of the physics changes this year was to reduce the amount extreme corner cuts were unrealistically viable in the game so I suspect the goal would be to match the higher fps performance if possible. For eSports/online racing I guess what matters most is consistency though.

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Just a guess but maybe matching higher fps is not the fix they're applying here based on this statement by PSGL and this one by WOR. Cancellation and delay due to 'significant differences between retail and esport builds'. I would imagine every player in those leagues could hit higher fps so to be unwilling to play the retail build indicates to me it might not be the same physics as high fps. Just speculating at this point I guess but I hope the retail build gets the changes very soon.

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@Crunchar wrote:

 

Just a guess but maybe matching higher fps is not the fix they're applying here based on this statement by PSGL and this one by WOR. Cancellation and delay due to 'significant differences between retail and esport builds'. I would imagine every player in those leagues could hit higher fps so to be unwilling to play the retail build indicates to me it might not be the same physics as high fps. Just speculating at this point I guess but I hope the retail build gets the changes very soon.

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First up it's sad to see those leagues suspended. I was enjoying watching them.

Regarding the fps related fix I guess the goal would be to make performance as independent of fps as possible. Depending what current fps this may be equivalent to could make it tricky to match in the retail build. I'm sure there will be hardware capability variations across the participants too. 

I suppose there could also be additional eSports build differences unrelated to fps. I'm sure those involved in eSports will be told to not share the details. 

@ea/codemasters is there any news when the problem will be fixed?

could it be that there was no problem with the release version?

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@Lillhelm wrote:

could it be that there was no problem with the release version?

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Sadly no. The issues identified were in the current main release version. Definitely on PC, and actually you've reminded me I keep meaning to test for myself on PS5.

*I think what you meant, as distinct from this being an eSports only problem? If you meant the launch version of the game then most won't be in a position to test now. I doubt it's changed personally but anything's possible!

I was going to ask the same: No news about this fix? It has to be top 1 on the fixes list. While this bug is happening, unfair races are happening all over the world on PC.

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@CgSquall wrote:
@taattorYou're mixing up your things a bit. If they're on 60 FPS - yes - if they're just on a 60 hz monitor/TV - no. Difference being the system / game is producing more frames (and thus the physics interactions) than your screen can actually display, but the "stuff" will still happen on those frames since it's being produced and you'll see the effect.

It's like how the ideal way to play a shooter is at 288 FPS (minimum) on a 144 hz monitor (this is an example, there are higher refresh rate monitors and all now, so this has gone up) so there's zero possibility you'd ever miss anything, as the two may not line up exactly.

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Hi, I'm a bit confused here, do you mean if one plays Standard Mode (speaking of PlayStation) which is low from rate (60 fps) should have the "benefits" of the bug? I guess no matter which is the monitor able to display. Am I wrong?

While if one plays Performance Mode, which is high frame rate (120 fps) will suffer harder kerbs behaviour etc.? Once again I would guess no matter about the monitor, but I may be totally misled here 😕 

Thanks,
Nuv

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@Nuvolarix wrote:

Hi, I'm a bit confused here, do you mean if one plays Standard Mode (speaking of PlayStation) which is low from rate (60 fps) should have the "benefits" of the bug? I guess no matter which is the monitor able to display. Am I wrong?

While if one plays Performance Mode, which is high frame rate (120 fps) will suffer harder kerbs behaviour etc.? Once again I would guess no matter about the monitor, but I may be totally misled here 😕 

Thanks,
Nuv

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Do you have a 120 Hz display? If not then there is no point using anything other than Quality mode (what I believe you're referring to as 'Standard'). If you do have a 120 Hz display then you have the option of using Performance mode at 120 Hz (assuming you're playing on PS5), which is what I use. 

On PC it has been demonstrated that there can be a couple of disadvantages of higher vs lower frame rates, but generally comparing 60 fps with 180+ fps. Codemasters have previously said that the fundamental game physics are the same across all platforms so my best guess is that the there also a difference between 60 and 120 fps on PS5 but that it is less significant as the difference in frame rate is smaller. You can try to test for yourself but when I had a quick look last night I realised it's harder to do this than PC as we have to go back to the main menu to changes the graphics mode. The downside of this is that it prevents us using flashbacks for consistency. If you do have the time and inclination to try to test this I'll be interested in what you find, but trying to be as repeatable as possible will be important.

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@Ultrasonic_77 wrote:

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@Nuvolarix wrote:

Hi, I'm a bit confused here, do you mean if one plays Standard Mode (speaking of PlayStation) which is low from rate (60 fps) should have the "benefits" of the bug? I guess no matter which is the monitor able to display. Am I wrong?

While if one plays Performance Mode, which is high frame rate (120 fps) will suffer harder kerbs behaviour etc.? Once again I would guess no matter about the monitor, but I may be totally misled here 😕 

Thanks,
Nuv

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Do you have a 120 Hz display? If not then there is no point using anything other than Quality mode (what I believe you're referring to as 'Standard'). If you do have a 120 Hz display then you have the option of using Performance mode at 120 Hz (assuming you're playing on PS5), which is what I use. 

On PC it has been demonstrated that there can be a couple of disadvantages of higher vs lower frame rates, but generally comparing 60 fps with 180+ fps. Codemasters have previously said that the fundamental game physics are the same across all platforms so my best guess is that the there also a difference between 60 and 120 fps on PS5 but that it is less significant as the difference in frame rate is smaller. You can try to test for yourself but when I had a quick look last night I realised it's harder to do this than PC as we have to go back to the main menu to changes the graphics mode. The downside of this is that it prevents us using flashbacks for consistency. If you do have the time and inclination to try to test this I'll be interested in what you find, but trying to be as repeatable as possible will be important.

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Yes sorry didn’t remember the correct label, Standard = Quality. And yes I’m currently with a 120+ hz monitor running Performance Mode on PS5.

True also with PS you cannot switch between Quality and Performance if not returning to the Main Menu. Once well trained my pace should be consistent enough to test it the same, but my eyes have begun to “suffer” the lower refresh rate, at least in my quick attempt I was struggling 😕

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@Nuvolarix wrote:

...but my eyes have begun to “suffer” the lower refresh rate, at least in my quick attempt I was struggling 😕

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For me that's reason enough to just stick with 120 Hz and not worry about any possible other small differences between modes.