Re: Aim assist is aim bot, we have data now...
@reconzero The data is not compromised in the slightest…it makes the problem very clear, as much as respawn try’s to hide the problem it was obvious for a long time.
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It's 10,000 people by playtime - so while it's selecting for those enthusiastic enough to install random *, it's fairly unbiased in regards to "skill".
Should be taken as gospel unless/until EA/Respawn releases their own data.
Another mnk user crying about aim assist. If you cant win against a controller thats skill issue. Most of you mnk players doesnt even understand how aim assist works all you cry about that aim assist is aimbot. Before you speak do a thorough research. Respawn wont change a thing because they will loose a lot of player. Always crying about aim assist while you spidermaning the whole map. You can move but cant aim thats not the aim assists fault. And most importantly its a video game and video games were meant to play on controllers. Most of the pc games are console ports.
- @BallisticMVP
I can understand wanting the data to be right when it reinforces your point of view, and I'm not saying that pov is wrong. It isn't. I'm saying that a little skepticism is in order. No, the data isn't actively lying, but sins of omission are another issue. There's a lot of information that we don't have about the players who produced that data set, not to mention how ballsy it is to use any data from a modded build and call it gospel. Have you played r5r? Do you know for a fact that the aim assist values in r5r are identical to the aim assist values in the real game? - @Florid_watch
"Always crying about aim assist while you spidermaning the whole map."
They love to hate when the disparity works against them, but when it works in their favor they have absolutely nothing whatsoever to say apart from "git gud." - @reconzero Actually quite the opposite, I don’t want the data to be true… I play both mnk and controller, I wish they were equal but they are not.
Yes I used the r5r client for aimtraining with both controller and mnk - @BallisticMVP
"Yes I used the r5r client for aimtraining with both controller and mnk"
Then you're the right person to ask: does aa behave the same way in the game as it does in r5r? - @reconzero You should understand that the r5r client is pretty much a real apex client, the difference are that the client is “open“ when it comes to all kind of settings. That also means that yes the client runs in the same engine behaves exactly the same way.
There is no difference between pc aimassist and r5r aimassist, it. Behaves exactly the same, if it didn’t people wouldn’t use it to train in the first place - @Florid_watch I didn’t think I would have to teach playground level logic about same rules and same balance regardless of the hardware, if you CHOOSE to play the game via console then understand that by nature you will be hindered in skill, if you play with mnk you will have a chance to develop your skill further because the hardware you picked is superior.
This, boys and girls, is called life, it’s unfair, but because it’s unfair we are not changing the system to help individuals if they don’t improve, we tried that IRL and it’s called diversity, equality and inclusion, it’s * everything up and it made things worse, merit should ALWAYS be rbe metric for EVERYTHING, you suck at mnk? Get better, you want to play on console? Go ahead but understand that your skill will be inferior because of the hardware YOU CHOSE! Can’t afford a PC? Level up IRL
I am sick and tired of inferior individuals asking for a handicap because they suck in areas they know they can improve.
Objectivity is kryptonite for slackers/losers
All we do is encourage inferior individuals to not level up when you “help” them, you are making them mediocre hence new generations
Teach a man to fish @dioangel This... is a confusing rant.
#1. The MnK community is the one asking for change or demanding to be catered to. I personally agree that there should be no controllers or Aim Assist in their lobbies but I also don't care. It's the MnK that wants Apex to change for them.
#2. I think you mixed equity and equality up since equality is something you're asking for here. Equal resources and an equal opportunity to succeed provided you're the better player. I think that's what you want? Thats equality unless I've misunderstood the word.
#3. Everything else you have to say is political nonsense. Even the above points were a little political. Our ways of life were flawed in the past, they're flawed now, and they'll be flawed in the future. The only difference will be which group is whining about things being "worse" or "bad."
- @BallisticMVP
If aim assist is not a changeable setting then what settings are we talking about that are? For example, can weapon mechanics be changed? Shield cell recharge rates? Jump heights? Slide mechanics? @dioangelPlease keep your weird politics to yourself. Apex forums are not a place for that.
Since you brought it up though,that’s not how the world works. Some people are born into poverty, while others are born into wealth and have every advantage at their fingertips. Life isn’t fair, but that doesn’t mean that it should be perpetuated.@dioangel
"Teach a man to fish..."
I would buy that garbage if any rich person anywhere ever did anything that looked like "teaching a man to fish." It's a platitude they roll out when they want to use their wealth to distance themselves from any kind of social responsibility or tax liability. Because they seem to universally believe that there is no such thing as "rich enough."
But @RaginSam is right. Let's leave the politics out of the forums.
@RaginSam wrote:@dioangelPlease keep your weird politics to yourself. Apex forums are not a place for that.
Since you brought it up though,that’s not how the world works. Some people are born into poverty, while others are born into wealth and have every advantage at their fingertips. Life isn’t fair, but that doesn’t mean that it should be perpetuated.lol, you say that then immediately engage, all I read from the 3 of you are the same excuses underperformers use... take that as you will
So based on your words, roller players should be able to demand the stoppage of super gliding, tap strafing and all the other busted movement mechanics PC players have that roller players don't and tell them to just "git gud" because they should be able to play the game without all that special movement which gives advantages - Correct?
And by using those movements they are actually hindering themselves from playing the game the way it was meant to be played and not allowing themselves to get better?
That they are all trash cause they can't play the game the way it was meant to play? et cetera.
I remember when a hint of certain movements asked to be removed from console players, the PC base got really upset. What? MnK players got upset when roller players claimed unfair advantage to all the key binding, movement advantages and aim advantage from distant MnK provides.... wow, who knew.
It always feels like some MnK players will always cry out until every single advantage belongs to them. Shame on you roller players for having one advantage over MnK players, whom have many advantages, for shame!
If you want to cry for something, try crying for separate input lobbies. The two inputs do not belong together period - that is the real issue. Cry for that, don't cry for something that has been in the game for roller players since the beginning that is needed to combat the way the inside of a roller works. Do the research on it.
All the movement tech is available to Controller players. You might have to change binds, but it's still there. I don't think there's anything a MnK player can do that a Controller can't at this point. Plus, they're not "given" to MnK players, it's just inherently easier to do with MnK. Aim Assist however IS given to Controller players, and is exclusively available to them. Big difference.
Hypothetically, take away Aim Assist, how would controller player do against Mouse users? How about at the Pro level? Would Pros still be using Controllers if they weren't given any Assist? Probably not. So we have to start from there. Aim Assist is meant to shrink the gap between the two inputs, not to make them even. It's a very flawed design philosophy trying to make the two inputs balanced. If you want to be at the top level on PC, then you should have to get better with MnK. Not sure why every game just gives Assist to Controller players on PC now.
About MnK players complaining about tap-strafing being removed. At first, it was believed that it was exclusive to MnK players, so the ones using it were MnK players. Now that it's better understood, and Controller players can use it, they would complain as well.
Personally I think the "movement tech" in this game is all pretty much unintended. With 20 tick servers, people warp around too much. I think they need to clean it up. Either make it something that's built into the game and accessible, or remove it.
The bottom line, as always, it's not about being fair. It's about selling skins in the game. It's fine if you want to make the game more accessible and all, but then the game has to be designed around that. If the only satisfaction from playing can be derived from winning fights, then people are going to fight over things like the amount of Assist. It also promotes people to cheat. Might seem abstract, but I believe that's how it gets solved in the end. Screw competitive gaming.
@ComicBookGuy2727you're comparing a soft aimbot and some movement bug (that almost no one use except streamers because you actually need skill not like aimbot assist) , if you can't see the difference then welp.
i'm all in for input lobbies , roller player should all be on console lobbies.
and btw you can do most movement bug on controller aswell , but since you can't aim by yourself guess you can't do any move either lmaoYou seem to be completely unable to understand the argument.
1. MNK arent the ones asking for catering, they are asking for change yes, the change that they take away the catering for controller users getting soft aimbot, cause they are inferior at the game. How they do this is irrelevant, but ultimately for fairness, soft aimbot has no bearing on a comp shooter and comp game in general. If consoles play only with each other and with AA thats fine. They could also simply remove aim assist and allow you to plug a MnK into your console and be done with it, you choose what you want and both platforms can do what they like.
2.Equality isnt giving one platform a huge advantage over the other, cause the hardware is inferior for the task. It would be allowing both platforms to use the superior hardware aka MnK or seperating them so it doesnt impact em. Like how we have female and male sports...- @WTF_Huitzo " i'm all in for input lobbies , roller player should all be on console lobbies."
How about no? Don't make your PC issues a console issue. - @ComicBookGuy2727 1. The movement techs are inherent bugs in the game that the developers have allowed and want to keep in the game, nearly all forms of movement tech can be done with controllers as well. But yes for fairness they should allow controllers to have an option to also be able to do them. But either way, being able to perform something better cause your input is different is vastly different from giving the inferior input soft aimbot as a crutch. Movement is something we found and have learned to use, AA is something they give to all controller players from the getgo, which is completely unfair.
2. How the game is meant to be played is subjective, it is a movement based, character shooter/BR, movement tech that was in the game since titanfall doesnt detract from that at all or make em worse players, mastering movement and aiming is harder to do than not to do it, even when it gives you an advantage, it is the whole reason that so few people are able to and bother with actually learning it.
3.Again you are mentioning inherent benefits attributed by the input, just being superior vs the inherent input of a developer making and giving someone soft aimbot. Those are very different things, you could technically remove those benefits from pc players or enable more of it to be done on console (all of it is doable on controller pc forexample), but either way they are vastly different "benefits" and one requires massive amounts of skill and knowledge.
4.Cause pc players have the stats to prove their arguments and all controller players have is feelings based whine ? Like it isnt even a discussion, you are conflating and equating that bugs and skill based improvements at a game is at all the same as a developer enabling soft aimbot for 80% of the playerbase per default. Now that we can see that AA is massively too good, to the point that everything pro is legit going full controller, it isnt even an argument anymore...
5. All this crying is legit that, we dont care how it is done, but the fact of the matter is that it is here. Whether the inputs get seperated and controller players are left out of tournaments is one way to do it, or seperate inputs tournaments, either way the result is the same, AA is removed as a massive disadvantage vs people who doesnt have it, aka MnK players.
AA isnt needed for controllers at all, it never has been, it was invented to make bad couch players able to hit a lot more shots and enjoy console gaming a lot more, without feeling how bad they were. This is a fair idea in a none comp or crossplatform game, but in a comp crossplay game, fairness and an equal battlefield is key. The only equal battlefield you can 100% guarantee that, is to have 0 AA in comp and allow everyone to use whatever input they want. - @CCbathwater Yet consoles/controller inherently made it an issue for pc players/mnk players.
So what is your solution then ?
It is either seperate inputs completely and give them equally, whatever they want, or remove AA entirely and allow both consoles and MnK to choose a controller or MnK. That is the absolute most fair option. - @TheDarkWaver How about PlayStation plays with PlayStation, on our PS5 controllers? Then all the Microsoft users can have crossplay with each other or not, and play whichever input they wish.
- @CCbathwater
Oh, xbox player says hard no to that, assuming you're lumping xbox and pc under the M$ banner.
No, it's time that pc players were turned loose on each other and only on each other. @TheDarkWaver The MnK community are asking for changes that will be of benefit to them. Some are even boldly saying that Aim assist should be completely removed on consoles as well. They clearly don't care about how changes will affect other communities and only want their preferences pushed forward. Sounds like catering to me.
Also the idea that Aim assists exists to balance between MnK and controllers is laughable. I don't know who said something so ridiculous but Aim assist existed when I played Goldeneye on the N64 and I don't believe there was crossplay then.
If Mnk is pushing for separate lobbies then I agree with that. I don't care so long as this is a MnK problem but I back the idea 100%. However, MnK users should have no say in how controllers work.
Lastly I HATE how the AA feels in this game but the input device that does not need it should have no say.
- @CCbathwater So exactly the same solution basically, everyone only plays with everyone that has the same inputs available to them as they have ?
PS has MnK support afaik, but it is limited and not rolled out for all games, there is no reason why we cant have console vs console as their inputs are the same basically and they both get AA. But AA vs mnk is the real problem, that needs to be addressed.
Your solution is fine, but it still needs to be addressed that in that instance you would still need to remove AA from the microsoft environment to make it fair. - @Zamaha400 No they are not asking for beneficial changes for them, they are specifically asking for the unfair aim assist to not be a beneficial advantage for controller players, those are not the same thing. The MnK community has never given a f about AA on console, we had 10-20 years of console AA that no one cared about cause Crossplay wasnt introduced and generally tournaments didnt feature PC vs Console or controller to begin with.
Aim assist wasnt made to balance the power between MnK and Controller, that is absolutely right, however it has become a balancing tool between the inputs as stated directly by developers of multiple crossplay games including Fortnite, Apex and Call of Duty Warzone.
MnK users arent specifically interested in how it is done, the main problem and outcome that they want, is that pc competetive environments and tournaments in general does in no way have AA that is an unfair advantage. Whether they seperate the inputs, disable AA on pc and in tournaments, it doesnt really matter. Again i point to the fact we had near 10-20 years of console aim assist that no PC player ever cared about, cause it was console vs console...
How in hell does an input that is directly affected by AA, not have a say in the matter ? All inputs are in this world together, all have a say in all aspects of the game, so long as the arguments make sense and are validly backed up with evidence. If you seperate MnK and Controller completely again, then sure MnK should have no say in what happens on Controllers side, just like controller shouldnt on MnK´s side. However the reality is that crossplay is here and it is mostly always going to be here, so the only fair option is to allow everyone to use the superior inputs by hardware and disable artificial benefits like AA, when it comes to ranked, competetive and tournaments.
