Did I just pay for a"butler" that isn't, functionally, a butler at all?

@Duchess_Morgan  I've moved your post to the Sims 4 game info section.

@Duchess_Morgan Sorry for your frustration at the butler. You make some great suggestions for play/interactive improvements. I think that adding your recommendations to the suggestions/feedback area would be an awesome idea: https://forums.thesims.com/en_US/categories/TS4-feedback

Personally, I love the Vintage Glamour pack, and, despite the somewhat 'buggy' butlers, I find it to be well worth the $9.99 price (less when on sale, which happens frequently). The globe bar is inexpensive and all adults are just bananas for it (including the butlers - a bit too much for most players since the butlers' love for the globe bar is a frustration many voice). The pack also comes with my favorite up-do hair style for formal wear for women, several lovely formal gowns, and some build mode items I use frequently. On top of all of those things, personally I would rather have the butler as an option, even in its somewhat buggy current state. I do hold out hope that the butlers will get some love in their code in a patch at some point, so I hope you will add your recommendations on them in the feedback/suggestions area. Having said all of that, I would like to add some thoughts I have on the butlers, whom I actually enjoy adding to certain wealthy households in my game, if you don't mind:

• They are butlers not slaves. I wonder if part of why they did not give us full options on control may have something to do with not allowing us to get too carried away on this end because I have noticed that they seem to have lowered/slow needs decay (for sleep, eating, hygiene, etc.). If this is the coders' goal, I think there is some need for tweaking this, though, or just making some parameters/ on/off hours, etc.
• I do not like one or two of the butlers and always fire them if they turn up. Then the game sends me a different butler. You can do this to get one you like better. ( Or you can even delete the sim in households so the game will make a different butler.)
• If you do not want the butler to use a particular bathroom you can lock the door to it for them. They will not clean it then, or repair that bathroom, but that will keep them out. You can probably hire the likelihood that they will use the bathroom in their quarters if you add the talking toilet and a bath with a higher comfort level than the other baths in the home. I have sims tend to walk on past other bathrooms to go to the one with a more comfy toilet/tub/shower on the other side of the house, especially that talking toilet from City Living. Then if their social needs are low they can chat with it also.
• Remember that they are sims and have needs, even if they are lowered. One of the things sims do when their needs get in the red is sort of 'blank out' a bit. Say they really need to pee badly, but they don't head to the bathroom on their own. So, since we cannot tell how the needs are going for a butler, it may be possible that one of their needs has gotten in the red, maybe while they were doing something assigned to them, and now they are a bit 'out of their mind' for connecting to their needs. It's hard to say since we cannot see their needs. If this is the case, that would be a good area for code improvement for them. Maybe EA thought people would get angry if the butler suddenly just went off to bed because they were exhausted in the middle of an assigned task, etc.?
• Something to note, I was frustrated that one butler was sitting down to read, and I zoomed in and it turned out that they were reading a training manual for butlers of some sort. 
• I keep my expectations for the butler low. I use them in families that are rich and I'm not worried about it the money the butler costs. If they help some, that's great. Plus if I want I can assign them to do things, which is also regularly helpful. They are super handy and will fix things you never knew they fixed (even without being asked), they will garden, you can assign them to watch a minor, their talents are high and they will play instruments or sing for you at a party or anytime if you assign the task and have the instrument, they are nice to pets and will clean up after them, and they do some cleaning spontaneously also (though I would hire a made also or they will drive you nuts on this one). And they don't seem to eat as much as the other sims, but they do need to eat. I expect that if you have you or them make a meal for the household there is probably an extra serving in there in case they need it. Just make sure there are always leftovers in the fridge and anyone but a toddler will help themselves if hungry. 
• As I mentioned, I always hire a maid and gardener when I have a butler. If the maid or gardener comes there is just less for them to do if the butler already has done some of that work.
• They do not answer the door, this is true. This may be because if they did that would allow sims to enter that you may not want in the home at a given time... including vampires if you have that pack.

Bottom line to me is that the butlers are handy if you need them in a number of ways, and for all of their weaknesses, they can be nice to have in the right household. 

Hello, @SheriGR  -  Your response offers a lot of good suggestions and subjects for consideration - and some points for conversation.

I do like some of the clothing and grooming options that come with the pack, but they're not why I bought it.  Just as might happen in real life, my sim had reached a point in her life where her time was too valuable for it to be economical for her to waste time cleaning, doing dishes, and so on...  Household help is - well, should be - the perfect solution.  There's no manual on the console version, and I didn't dig deep enough to notice you could hire a maid and a gardener, and, really, after searching online for hours, in game and online, to discover a sim couldn't simply go out and eat without buying DLC, it didn't occur to me to even look, since I'd seen the butler DLC - I figured you had to have it to hire help.

*  "They are butlers, not slaves" is a good point - but it cuts both ways.  If they were slaves, you could simply feed them to the lions. 😉  But, they are butlers. In theory. They're employees, not friends or room-mates.  If you work in an office environment, would you walk into your CEOs office, make yourself a cocktail, plop down on the couch, and read a book, while you're supposed to be working?

A butler should never be so familiar as to stand around chatting, or watch television while on duty, especially in the main areas of house, or dine at the principal's dining table, or while the principal is dining, for that matter (unless we can also get cooks and footmen), or use the restroom  facilities in the main part of house. A certain professional deference and distance are to be maintained. 

If a principal chooses to, and is thoughtful enough to say something like "feel free to make use of the library, if you're interested", then a butler might take a book from the household library and go read it in their quarters or office, in their spare time, but they would absolutely not just make themselves at home in their principal's office or study - no matter what they were reading.

They should have their own part of the house, with their own restrooms, sitting areas, beds (of course), dressing facilities, dining areas, and so on.  If your house don't have those areas, you're not prepared for proper live-in staff.

All of this could change, I suppose, based on the attitudes and personality and behavior of the principal. If the principal wants a personable, informal companion who happens to do a little cleaning now and then, they could make that clear - but I think a formally trained butler would be uncomfortable with it.  Likewise, if you lack the proper facilities for live-in staff, you could just say "Go ahead and use the main dining room, once we're not using it." but it would be uncomfortable and weird.

Really, a butler's primary duty should be management of the supplies and other household staff, and we don't get live-in staff, and supplies are automatic (your fridge seems capable of delivering any ingredient you need, instantly) so that's not a thing - but the service elements, those should at least have the option of being handled in a moderately traditionally acceptable manner.

*  The sim in question wouldn't be concerned about the cost - the improvements for the butler's quarters probably cost her more in "bills" every week than the butler does per day. It's trivial. But that you don't mind paying the cost of something doesn't mean you're less likely to care whether you get what you pay for - at least in my case.  I don't mind paying to dine out, but I do expect to get the food.

*  I plan to hire a maid, gardener, and nanny - even though the game specifically gives you a "tip" reminding you to get rid of all of them once you have a butler, because they'll handle all those things.  It's annoying the butler doesn't do what they should, but it would still feel more realistic to have dedicated staff for those jobs.  Though, now, with the butler experience, I expect them to be terrible, as well. ☹️

*  Likewise, the front door. They have specific settings to ignore the door, let anyone in, or refuse anyone entry (presumably to go to the principal and announce the visitor?)  My problem is, I set that to "let everyone in" and they ignored the door.

*  On the sleep issue, I agree - there are reasons they developers might have made them raging insomniacs 😉  But, I think you should just be able to set them a schedule.  Be up and available by this time, make and serve breakfast, lunch, and/or dinner at these times.  Clear dishes when the dining room is empty, and clean other parts of the house during these times (and there should be a setting where you can make your sim stop automatically wanting to wash their own dishes, when there's staff to do that.)  And, ffs, don't wash the dishes in the bathroom, you hobo! That's disgusting! 🙂 (I know it seems to just go to whichever sink is closest, but the game obviously recognizes "rooms", and it would be trivial to make them consider any sink in the same room as a shower, bathtub, or commode last.)

I seem to have gotten a bit off track there... 🙂  Anyway, they should ensure they're fed, clean, and relieved before they come to work, take breaks to eat lunch, etc., at these times, or ask.

*  Locking the bathroom (and my office, and the media room) occurred to me, but, as you note, they won't get cleaned (though the butler refused to clean the toilet anyway) and it's just not a work-around we should be expected to employ - it's functionality that should have been in the product to begin with. Likewise making all the facilities in their bathroom nicer than in the principal's bathroom.  They're already damned nice - I didn't want them coming to work poorly rested, tense, uncomfortable, etc. - making them nicer is a work-around we shouldn't have to employ, and, to the extent it matters, it breaks suspension of disbelief - or whatever it would be called when that happens in a game.

From the two unofficial responses - moving it from... You know, at this point, I don't even remember if the rep I talked to had me post it in tech support or bug reports, but now, evidently, it's "game information" - and the fact that I now see that people have been making the same complaints for years... I guess that means the official response is "Ha ha ha, Deal With It!", right?

In that case, at very least, I think the description of the "pack" should be more forthright, saying something like "Marvel at the amusing hi-jinks of the worlds worst butler! Seriously, if you have any experience with household staff, this is just going to * you off!"  🙂 

I was enjoying the game until I installed these two packs, but I haven't really played since, except working on a house in free-build mode.  If that is the official response, and I could return it, I would - it's simply not what it was advertised to be.  I don't think I can, though.  So it'll just be a relatively  inexpensive- counting both DLC and the main game, together - lesson learned...

At any rate, thank you very much for your help and suggestions and good cheer. I very much appreciate your efforts.  🙂

@Duchess_Morgan You are very welcome. I hope that you will still find ways to enjoy your butler - with low expectations. Household maintenance will flow well, though, if you hire a maid, a gardener, and a butler, and you can just instruct the butler to make a few meals a day then drag them to the fridge and everyone will just grab leftovers. I find it all flows quite well. The butler will not use anyone else's bed as long as he is assigned one, and I have not found that he usually 'helps himself' to much in the home. Maybe you could fire the current one and try another one? Anyway, hopefully we will get new coding for the butlers at some point that changes at least a few of these things. 

I hope you will find ways to enjoy your game, whether or not they include the butler. That pack is worth it just to have the globe bar, imho. Enjoy it otherwise! :eahigh_file:

Hi @Duchess_Morgan 

Thought I'd pop in with a brief note since there was no mention of mods that I could see, and do realize many don't like to use Mods or cc.. Though I'm a huge fan of them (and use literally 1000's) LittleMsSams does have a Better Butler Mod, if you're curious to search and look into it.

Most mods are there to customize your game to suit you, I recently was relieved to get the 'No Mermaids' mod, as prefer a more realistic game personally. There are many game script mods, and would find it impossible to play without them.

Sasha

nb:  🙂
I have no connection to EA 

@Sashas0nic  - in general, I'm a fan of mods, but I play on Xbox, and my understanding is that EA/Maxis doesn't allow them there.

I did see mention of the mod you suggest when I was initially looking for answers on this. I think I'd like it - I might even be inspired to tinker around and make my own Very Proper Butler mod or something , but... Xbox 🙂

I work at my computer... I don't like to have to play there, too, so I usually get the console version of a game if it's available.  If I get back into it enough to want to make mods, I'd have to buy a PC license anyway, though. 

It's a solution, though. Even if it'll annoy me to have to buy two copies of everything.  🙂  Thank you.

@SheriGR  I do hope I get back into it. I can't get beyond the idea of paying for something and then having low expectations for it, though... And that's the single thing I bought that DLC for.

Of course, it's not their problem if I have different expectations than most of their buyers.  I know a lot of people have complained about the butlers, too, but compared to how many bought the DLC, it's probably a small percentage. 

I may not like it, but that's life. 🙂

Makes me wish they'd enable mods on console, like Bethesda did, though. 🙂 

@Duchess_Morgan @Sashas0nic I also work from home and at my computer, and I chuckled at what you said since my gaming on my computer is not what I ever expected to do - partly because I really need to step away from my computer more 😉. Sims 1 through 4 are my 'one game', but I'm bonkers for sims. I do web design and know enough code that I think I could tinker with the game code if I pursued it, but for me I think it would be a Pandora's box. Like when I tried Moo. No putting that one back in the box. I see a lot of the damage that can be done to games also with Mods and CC, particularly if not properly maintained and updated... which it seems many users do not do. So, I 'just say no' to Mods and CC. Biggest reason for me, though, is I feel a responsibility to keep a clean game code going since I build a lot and share to the community gallery. 

On the other hand there are many folks that are super-responsible with their Mod/CC use. For instance, when there is a big patch coming out like we had right before Island Living, a responsible user of Mods/CC would remove the entire Mods folder to their desktop , repair the game and remove cache, then download the patch and not re-add any mods to their game until they have confirmed that each is running fine with the new patch or until they get an update from the Mod creator that makes it work properly with the game update. This is a dance and back-and-forth also when new adjustments are made to code on both ends, which is part of the process. For instance, how many times do you get an update to your iPhone, then a week or less there is another, and maybe a few more that trail in after that. There is forever stuff that got missed, and the dance goes on and on. 

@SheriGR 

I know what you mean, but have used 1000s of mods and cc since starting with Sims in 2000 so the upkeep and maintenance isn't so hard, more or less just a 'habit' one gets used to and I've never encountered problems with the upkeep nor my 'game' in general in all that time, wow, nearly 20 years now.  ⭐

As for lots or sims I share to the online gallery, easy as I keep a separate game with no mods for that.

With the 'Island Living' update, my game was still up and running in about 10 mins, as you also get to 'know' what may be affected, so rather than the whole mods folder being removed, it's a simple step to check and update pertinent mods.

@Sashas0nic Sounds like your usage falls in the second group I mentioned (sorry... I added to my last post after posting, so you will have to refer to that), and kudos to you for that! :eahigh_file: