I've had enough. These characters have been available for a long time and you keep adding new ones but I've just figured out that the entire team is dysfunctional.
There are contradictions in the synergy of their kits. What counts towards triggers for Dramatic Entrance buff is poorly defined and illogical. You created an entire team that centers around DoTs and mechanics associated with DoTs but if DoTs they apply kill their enemies, it doesn't trigger some abilities but not others?
The synergy between Appo, Knightfall Trooper and Disguised Clone Trooper does not work properly. If Knightfall Trooper calls Disguised Clone Trooper to assist while he is stealthed, Disguised Clone Trooper attacks, loses stealth and doesn't enter stealth again even though the ability says he should? You have Appo with the core same assist mechanic as Knightfall Trooper but still you don't word it exactly the same? Using Knightfall Trooper special ability makes your team weaker since Disguised Clone Trooper doesn't restealth and does not gain Ruse on his next turn.
Order 66 is a debuff, Ashes of the Republic is a buff and they recognize any enemy that dies regardless of the source of damage - as defeated and they cannot be revived.
You have the definition for Dramatic Entrance in Appo kit and the criteria for it that specifically says the unit with the buff needs to directly kill the enemy. In CX2 kit you word it exactly like it is worded in Order 66 and Ashes of the Republic referring to "whenever any enemy unit is defeated"
At the same time, you put a big effort into having this team revolve around DoTs and damage but if the DoTs kill defeat the enemy unit on their turn the credit does not go to Vader or the Clones, "the enemy defeats himself"? But at the same time, if the enemy has defeated himself by DoTs applied by Vader and Clones, it is recognized by Order 66 and Ashes of the Republic? But it is not recognized by the exact same definition found in CX2 kit??
And the same time you give Appo an ability that does physical damage and triggers DoTs stacks on the enemy? Then you give Disguised Clone Trooper an ability that enhances his damage based on number of DoT stacks? So if Appo triggers DoT stacks that defeat the enemy unit, the it still counts as the enemy defeating himself and he can't trigger his own abilities because the DoTs and their damage applied by the teams kit isn't credited to them??
Then you troll us by giving Scorch an ability that revolves around DoT stacks he specifically inflicts, so for his kit the DoT stacks he applied are monitored and counted among all other stacks and when they expire, his kit recognizes his DoTs and disregard DoTs by his team and his kit acrivates?
If the expiry of DoTs inflicted by Scorch damages the enemy unit enough and defeats him, he can trigger his own kit, he fits the criteria for Order 66 and Ashes of the Republic because they recognize the enemy as defeated but because the DoT damage defeated the enemy, it doesn't fit with Appo's kit so Dramatic Entrance cant be reapplied, it does fit the CX2 kit but apparently "whenever any enemy unit is defeated" does not mean the same as for the very buffs and debuffs this team is chasing to apply???
We players who pay money we can't do anything about it? In game help support is useless and these forums seem to only be used to tell us what is and we can't monitor anything.
I have recordings showing that the team is DYSFUNCTUONAL and I've finally figured out how the mechanics work and there is no way any logic can be applied to it! We can't trust what the kits say in text form and the game coding irrationally recognizes damage credit.
This is actually what is going on, and you keep on sending out game data that doesnt function properly and you do not fix the previous game data you have sent out and we have payed for?
This needs to be seen because the deeper I dig into these mechanics, the more absurd they become.
I freely admit that when the Dark Side Clones were released, I spent money to get them. I love Star Wars, and Anakin/Vader are easily my favorite characters. Unfortunately, after trying to understand how this team actually functions, I regret spending money on them because the design reaches a level where you start wondering why bleach bottles need warning labels.
Let me explain.
THE TEAM’S ENTIRE IDENTITY REVOLVES AROUND DoTs
Lord Vader and the Dark Side Clones are designed around:
- Applying DoTs
- Triggering DoTs
- Benefiting from DoTs
- Interacting with DoTs through Order 66, stuns, cooldown reduction, healing, and other effects
DoTs are one of the core mechanics of the entire faction.
Yet, according to the current explanation, if the team applies 15 stacks of DoTs and the enemy dies from those DoTs at the start of their turn, the enemy effectively defeated themselves.
The units who applied the DoTs don’t get credit.
The units whose kits revolve around DoTs don’t get credit.
The units whose abilities created the damage don’t get credit.
The enemy just dies and apparently defeated themselves.
That alone suggests that DoT ownership either isn’t tracked for kill credit or is simply ignored whenever it matters.
ORDER 66 AND ASHES OF THE REPUBLIC USE “DEFEATED” CONSISTENTLY
Order 66 states:
“Immune to buffs and can’t be revived if defeated.”
Lord Vader’s Ultimate states:
“Enemies defeated while this is active can’t be revived.”
Neither ability cares how the enemy died.
Physical damage? Defeated.
Special damage? Defeated.
DoT damage? Defeated.
The game simply checks whether the unit entered the defeated state.
The source of damage is irrelevant.
This makes perfect sense.
THEN CX-2 SUDDENLY CHANGES THE MEANING OF “DEFEATED”
CX-2 states:
“If all allies gained Dramatic Entrance at the start of the encounter, all allies gain Dramatic Entrance when any enemy unit is defeated.”
Notice the wording.
Not:
“When an ally defeats an enemy.”
Not:
“When an ally scores a kill.”
Not:
“When an ally lands the killing blow.”
It says:
“When any enemy unit is defeated.”
The exact same wording logic used by Order 66 and Ashes of the Republic.
Yet apparently this one works differently.
Now we’re suddenly tracking kill credit and damage ownership again.
Why?
DRAMATIC ENTRANCE CREATES EVEN MORE CONFUSION
Appo’s kit says:
“+25% Offense, deal bonus true damage equal to 10% of the target’s Max Health, which can’t be evaded, gain 20% Turn Meter and Dramatic Entrance for 2 turns if this unit defeats an enemy.”
The buff only lasts 2 turns.
If nobody defeats an enemy during those 2 turns, it expires.
Normally, that would mean it’s gone.
Except CX-2 exists.
CX-2 allows the buff to be reapplied whenever an enemy is defeated.
So now we’re expected to understand that:
- Order 66 uses defeated literally.
- Ashes of the Republic uses defeated literally.
- CX-2 uses defeated differently.
- Appo uses “this unit defeats an enemy.”
- CX-2 somehow inherits Appo’s kill-credit requirements despite using completely different wording.
How is anyone supposed to understand that from the text?
THE TEAM’S CORE MECHANIC WORKS AGAINST ITS OWN TRIGGERS
The team revolves around DoTs.
Yet DoTs apparently don’t count as kills for Appo.
So the mechanic the faction is built around cannot reliably trigger one of the faction’s most important buffs.
That’s already bizarre.
But it gets worse.
APPO’S TRIGGERED DoT ABILITY
Appo has an ability that deals physical damage and immediately triggers existing DoTs.
Let’s say:
- Appo attacks.
- The direct damage doesn’t kill.
- The triggered DoTs kill the enemy.
Who got the kill?
Appo?
The DoT applier?
The enemy?
Nobody?
If DoT damage belongs to the enemy, then Appo shouldn’t get credit.
If Appo doesn’t get credit, then his own “if this unit defeats an enemy” clause doesn’t trigger.
If that doesn’t trigger, does CX-2 trigger?
If CX-2 doesn’t trigger, why does Order 66 still recognize the enemy as defeated?
The wording is identical, yet the outcome changes depending on which ability we’re talking about.
BONUS TRUE DAMAGE CREATES ANOTHER PROBLEM
Now let’s look at Dramatic Entrance itself.
The buff grants bonus true damage equal to 10% of the target’s Max Health.
If that bonus true damage kills the enemy:
Does Appo get kill credit?
Does Dramatic Entrance count as Appo’s damage?
Does it trigger “if this unit defeats an enemy”?
Does it trigger CX-2?
At this point every damage source seems to follow a different set of rules.
THE GAME ACTUALLY TRACKS DoT OWNERSHIP… SOMETIMES
Here’s the funniest part.
Scorch’s kit states:
“Whenever a stack of Damage Over Time inflicted by Scorch expires, he gains 10% Bonus Protection for 2 turns.”
Wait a second.
That means the game absolutely knows:
- Which DoT expired.
- Who applied it.
- Which character owns it.
The system clearly tracks DoT ownership.
It has to.
Otherwise Scorch’s kit couldn’t function.
So ownership exists.
The game knows who applied the DoT.
The game can track it.
But apparently ownership matters for some mechanics, doesn’t matter for others, and we’re given no way whatsoever to see or track any of it ourselves.
THE END RESULT
So let me see if I understand correctly.
If a DoT kills an enemy:
- Order 66 works.
- Ashes of the Republic works.
- Scorch can benefit from his DoT expiring.
- The enemy is considered defeated.
But:
- Appo may not get credit.
- Dramatic Entrance may not trigger.
- CX-2 may not trigger.
Even though all of these interactions revolve around the exact same enemy death event.
Let me put this in another way from the perspective of Scorch:
- Lord Vader acrivates Ashes of the Republic and enemies are inflicted with 4 stacks Of DoTs
- Enemy player dispells Taunt from Scorch and is applied with Order 66 Debuff
- Scorch takes a turn and applies 2 DoTs to the enemy with Order 66 so that enemy has 6 stacks of DoTs
- 2 turns pass and the debuffs aren't dispelled and assume Order 66 is still active as well as Ashes of the Republic
- The enemy with Order 66 starts his turn, the 6 stacks of DoTs do their damage and expire and the enemy dies due to the damage
- The system knows that 4 stacks of DoTs were applied by Lord Vader and 2 stacks applied by Scorch
- Scorch recieves 20% bonus protection since DoTs he inflicted expired
- The criteria for his kit has been met, the criteria for Order 66 and Ashes of The Republic have been met and the enemy is defeated and cannot be revived.
- The criteria for reapplying Dramatic Entrance have not been met since he since the DoTs he inflicted and caused damage and gave him bonus protection are not credited to him but the enemy who defeated himself.
- Even though the criteria have been met for CX2 kit as it is worded exactly the same as Order 66 and Ashes of the Republic, it does not apply because the criteria for CX2 kit to be applied means something different because of no apparent reason.
- The enemy is still defeated according to every other kit ability and definition.. Somehow?
At this point I finally understand the Lord Vader and Dark Side Clone mechanics.
Unfortunately, I had to sacrifice all of my intelligence to do so.
