Its safe to say these two guns are ruining the game right now on PC. They are too strong and pretty much everyone who is aware of this is using them every single game. This also has the effect of making the game extremely boring playing against and with the same weapons every single match.The Wingman. This gun requires basically no attachments to be the strongest gun in the game. Most full auto weapons are SIGNIFICANTLY weaker without extended mags and have significantly higher recoil without other attachments. You can literally just pickup the base Wingman and be good to go. The argument that the gun is 'only good if you can aim well so its balanced' is a terrible one. Essentially every gun in the game is terrible unless you can aim well. The high TTK in this game requires you to hit people with upwards of 10 bullets from a fully auto weapon so you cant get away with bad aim regardless of weaponIts harder to land all your shots with automatic weapons between the recoil, high strafe speed and game movement and high TTK because you have to constantly track your target and generally have low mag sizes. The gun has basically no recoil, extremely high damage per shot especially headshots(only 10 less body shots than a sniper) and a high rate of fire. Its effective at most if not all effective combat ranges. For all these things the hipfire accuracy of the gun isnt even bad making it even more ridiculous.The Peacekeeper1. Again the gun requires no attachments to be god tier.2. Basically as good as the Mastif a legendary drop weapon yet is so common that theres enough of them for every single player on the server3. The range on this gun is absurd and the choke basically lets you snipe with it4. Close quarters with an SMG i have to perfectly land every single shot on a fast moving target while controlling recoil to kill someone, often times requiring at least one reload. Meanwhile someone with a Peacekeeper just has to hipfire twice in my general direction to nearly instantly kill me. Fair? Balanced?

I like this break down of these weapons. It pretty much explains to a T, what the main issues are with these guns. I have been thinking on these two a lot as well, and honestly I don't really know how they can't already realize there is a balance issue. When basically every major twitch streamer for the game, and almost any player past level 50 uses nothing but, there clearly is an issue somewhere with balance.I was thinking of exactly what we could do to fix these issues, and the main things that came to mind for me, were some pretty simple fixes. They might not fix the problem completely, but at least help them go in the right direction, I hope.WingmanRemove the extended mag attachment from the gun: All other pistols in the game, are given only 2 attachments. Let's not make the wingman so much better, in the fact that it can have 3. One of the main reasons it starts to jump up in damage output, is going from only 6 shots, to suddenly 9+ if they find an extended mag. Reloading is one of the major downfalls for almost all of the guns, but you effectively remove that downfall by finding a level 1 extended mag.Reduce the damage: Let's face it, the damage on this thing is just too high. 40+ damage from a single shot, a shot that has the accuracy of a sniper rifle, at almost all distances. Is just to much. Being able to down someone in purple armor in 4 shots (if 2 are headshots) is just to much. I don't think it even needs that big of a reduction, 10 points, maybe even just 5 points would be more then enough. Even more so if we include the first part.PeaceKeeper I only have 1 change for this weapon, and it's actually a pretty basic concept that, at least to me, would drastically change its usage int he game.Change the ammo type, to Energy: To me, part of the biggest issue with this weapon, is simply how plentiful its ammo is. Shotgun ammo is simply not the most uncommon ammo, and honestly once you have about 1 box of the stuff, you're pretty much good for the rest of the game. So why does a gun, that shoots a giant energy blast, firing shotgun shells? If we changed the ammo type to energy, it would drastically change it's usage, because 1. Energy ammo is pretty uncommon, 2. It would be using more then just 1 shell at a time. Specifically what I mean, is that instead of having say, 6 shots per mag. It would instead have lets say 60, and each shot consumed 10 shells.A side addition to peacekeepers, reduce their commonality. Make their rarity to mach that of other energy weapons, and not only would that keep the energy ammo down, but make the guns overall appearance in fights, match that of those same weapons.I hope these sound like good tweaks, just thought I'd share and see if anyone agrees,

Your post is spot on. Anyone who replies that wingman and peacekeeper are balanced honestly has no right to discuss game balance in any game.Side note I don’t see any changes coming because the bottom line is every game needs a low abilty high power weapon like peacekeeper....me personally id be super happy if they would nerf it or at least it’s power up. The game would be better for it.also boost snipers damage a little.

Honestly, I feel like you're missing the overall point. The fact is, the majority of people do almost nothing but pick up these 2 guns. Yes get good, aim better, etc etc, blah blah blah.The issue isn't skill, or lack there of. It's the overall usage of the weapons to the point that if you DON'T have one, you're gonna get mowed down by the guys that did. You can have all the skill with all the other weapons you want, but when that guy gets 1 lucky shot off from the wingman or the peacekeeper, it's basically over no matter how much you hit him.Don't get me wrong, playing a little better as a team, working to your advantages, and picking and choosing when and where to engage is important. Of course it is, and yes using them to your advantage can win you a fight against someone with these weapons. It's not like I've never killed someone using a wingman or a peacekeeper before, it's not even that hard. The issue is that when you have one of these guns, you have a clear advantage in the fight, beyond skill, beyond equipment, and beyond teamwork.

The simple fact is you can laser an opponent with equal armor with an r301 /w extended mag and not down them, which in itself is fine, but when you get dropped very low or downed because they use the Wingman and clicked 3-4 times it becomes nonsense. At times this game becomes a reload simulator because of the low damage and ammo capacity, it's about who tracks better, uses cover &/or who gets into cover to pop a cell/health and continues the fight, that is skill, timing and aiming. However, put a Wingman in the mix and you require almost none of thatThe amount of times I pick up the Wingman and get 3-4 or more kills I drop it because it's pathetically easy and shouldn't be in the game.

Wingman need a magazine nerf. Having up to 12 shots, while also having among the fastest long reloads in the game (that's faster than most guns tactical reloads) makes a gun that's normally known to be unforgiving for poor aim, suddenly be one of the MOST forgiving.Either remove the ability to equip extended mags to it completely, or nerf the mag size from 6/8/9/12 to 5/6/7/8. Possibly also nerfing the reload speed slightly. I'm fine with it hitting hard, but right now you can put down so much lead down range with it, so fast, that you can down entire squads without even having to reload.Peacekeeper... I'm not sure how to fix, exactly. I think nerfing the damage by removing two pellets (so 9 pellets instead of 11, total damage becoming 90 without headshots) and making the spread pattern a 3x3 grid, as well as nerfing the mag cap to 5 would make it feel both less overpowered, and more consistent. I also think shotguns should have a slower draw speed, to make them less effective as a panic gun to rapidly switch to, maybe dropping ADS speed too, to something more similar to the ARs. Give the SMGs and pistols a bit of an extra edge over shotguns, you know? They're big, bulky weapons. Makes no sense they're as fast to whip out as a small, lightweight SMG, while having the same ADS speed too. There's lots of little things that can be done to tweak guns.Also, Peacekeeper should probably use energy ammo instead of shotgun ammo.

The Wingman and Peacekeeper are objectively overpowered

42 Replies

MechaDraco
6 years ago
I like this break down of these weapons. It pretty much explains to a T, what the main issues are with these guns. I have been thinking on these two a lot as well, and honestly I don't really know how they can't already realize there is a balance issue. When basically every major twitch streamer for the game, and almost any player past level 50 uses nothing but, there clearly is an issue somewhere with balance.

I was thinking of exactly what we could do to fix these issues, and the main things that came to mind for me, were some pretty simple fixes. They might not fix the problem completely, but at least help them go in the right direction, I hope.

Wingman
Remove the extended mag attachment from the gun: All other pistols in the game, are given only 2 attachments. Let's not make the wingman so much better, in the fact that it can have 3. One of the main reasons it starts to jump up in damage output, is going from only 6 shots, to suddenly 9+ if they find an extended mag. Reloading is one of the major downfalls for almost all of the guns, but you effectively remove that downfall by finding a level 1 extended mag.
Reduce the damage: Let's face it, the damage on this thing is just too high. 40+ damage from a single shot, a shot that has the accuracy of a sniper rifle, at almost all distances. Is just to much. Being able to down someone in purple armor in 4 shots (if 2 are headshots) is just to much. I don't think it even needs that big of a reduction, 10 points, maybe even just 5 points would be more then enough. Even more so if we include the first part.
PeaceKeeper
I only have 1 change for this weapon, and it's actually a pretty basic concept that, at least to me, would drastically change its usage int he game.
Change the ammo type, to Energy: To me, part of the biggest issue with this weapon, is simply how plentiful its ammo is. Shotgun ammo is simply not the most uncommon ammo, and honestly once you have about 1 box of the stuff, you're pretty much good for the rest of the game. So why does a gun, that shoots a giant energy blast, firing shotgun shells? If we changed the ammo type to energy, it would drastically change it's usage, because 1. Energy ammo is pretty uncommon, 2. It would be using more then just 1 shell at a time. Specifically what I mean, is that instead of having say, 6 shots per mag. It would instead have lets say 60, and each shot consumed 10 shells.
A side addition to peacekeepers, reduce their commonality. Make their rarity to mach that of other energy weapons, and not only would that keep the energy ammo down, but make the guns overall appearance in fights, match that of those same weapons.

I hope these sound like good tweaks, just thought I'd share and see if anyone agrees,
Tribang
6 years ago
Peacekeeper and wingman are gg early game. They are flat out too strong and low skill cap, both of these weapons can completely kill a fully armored squad(literally all 3 of a squad) without reloading, without any attachments on, minus skullpiercer for wingman. Peacekeeper should require a perfect chest-hit with 1-2 pellets hitting the head to get 100, or more, damage. Wingman is spammable and one of it's main benifits is it's ammo efficiency. Reduce wingman rof and I think you will find it more fair in comparison with other weapons.
MechaDraco
6 years ago
I've seen the rate of fire decrease on other suggestions, and I am inclined to agree, I still think some of my suggestions would work as well, perhaps coupled with the rof adjustment, but I am not sure if doing all of them would be fair to the gun, after all it still should be viable. As for the peacekeeper, I can't disagree here, I watched one of the Twitch streams I watch have a guy in his squad, rack up 13 kills in one run, without even stopping to catch his breath, and with no assistance from his teammates using it.
He literally ran through the map, charged every enemy squad they came across, and downed all 3 of them in 4 to 5 shots. Only reloading maybe once in the fights. That's personally rather ridiculous, but I am not sure how much of a damage drop it really needs, after all we still want it to be a strong capable weapon, but there just ins't any limitation on it other then it's slow fire rate, and small ammo capacity. I am not even sure how helpful my energy ammo suggestion would be, at least with it like that not every player by the end of the game has one, and those that do will be limited on their ammo supply.
RedpawsQ
6 years ago
Wingman need a magazine nerf. Having up to 12 shots, while also having among the fastest long reloads in the game (that's faster than most guns tactical reloads) makes a gun that's normally known to be unforgiving for poor aim, suddenly be one of the MOST forgiving.

Either remove the ability to equip extended mags to it completely, or nerf the mag size from 6/8/9/12 to 5/6/7/8. Possibly also nerfing the reload speed slightly. I'm fine with it hitting hard, but right now you can put down so much lead down range with it, so fast, that you can down entire squads without even having to reload.

Peacekeeper... I'm not sure how to fix, exactly. I think nerfing the damage by removing two pellets (so 9 pellets instead of 11, total damage becoming 90 without headshots) and making the spread pattern a 3x3 grid, as well as nerfing the mag cap to 5 would make it feel both less overpowered, and more consistent. I also think shotguns should have a slower draw speed, to make them less effective as a panic gun to rapidly switch to, maybe dropping ADS speed too, to something more similar to the ARs. Give the SMGs and pistols a bit of an extra edge over shotguns, you know? They're big, bulky weapons. Makes no sense they're as fast to whip out as a small, lightweight SMG, while having the same ADS speed too. There's lots of little things that can be done to tweak guns.

Also, Peacekeeper should probably use energy ammo instead of shotgun ammo.
Karsot
6 years ago
Typing objectively in the title does not mean your arguments are objective.
The wingman needs 3 shots to down a target with a white armor (if those shots are body shots).
That means that the person getting shot has a lot of time to start jumping, strafing and go to cover to avoid being killed. If that person chooses to fight even though a person with the wingman has landed already 2 shots on them, then that is their fault and should lose that fight.
When i jump people with alternator fully decked out most people, stick and want to fight with me, only to find out that was a bad idea since i have destroyed their armor in the first mag and have already reloaded the second mag in before they have managed to get a single shot at me.
In other words if people get the jump on you, you are at a disadvanatege and should choose wisely whether to engade or not no matter what weapon they are using.
As for peacekeeper, keep your distance and you will be just fine. Even a fully decked out one, cannot do enough damage to kill you easily when you are far from the person using it.
Weapons have strong points and weak points. The weakpoints of wingman is the recoil. That means if you keep jumping and strafing the person shooting you will have a hard time killing you you.
The weak point of the shotgun is the range. Use those to your advantage.
DARKEMPERORZUUL
6 years ago
I agree with you 100% , most people write off the alternator as a crappy gun that needs a buff but its actually really great. The slower rate of fire lets you be a little more accurate and if you can really focus on hitting most of your shots you will probably down your opponent rather quickly.

I hear a lot of people complaining about the peacekeeper or wingman in particular, as if thats the only loadout that pros run, but I find myself with a different weapon loadout almost every game and i've had great results with just about every weapon ( including the hard to use mozambique , remember this pistol fires two shots to the body and 1 to the head so aim accordingly ).

The P2020 is probably the only gun I haven't had much luck with, although I haven't tried it a whole lot to be fair, but I like the fact that its so hard to use, makes for a fun round when you're stuck with it early game sometimes. I still wouldn't give it a buff though just because I like the games current balance.
Gidoruu
6 years ago
The weakpoint of the Wingman is the recoil? You've just demonstrated you have no clue what you're talking about.
GingerGiraffe
6 years ago
I don't think these guns are unbalanced at all actually, you guys just need to get better. The TTK of everything except p2020, mozabique, and maybe eva-8 are virtually identical. The wingman with skullpiercer is 2 or 3 shot kill for headshots only which with its fire rate puts it on pretty much the same kill time as even a flatline all headshots, or a prowler all headshots with selectfire or the r301. The problem is if you use an automatic weapon it will have recoil, and someone with a revolver with good aim will kill you if miss half you magazine with an automatic weapon. You have to play smarter don't rush a shotgun so hard, communicate, aim better, you'll find the balance is pretty good for most guns. Complain about the wingman lol? Stand next to someone with the r99 and stuff their skull with that bullet hose, they pretty much evaporate. Smg fire fast with some recoil so you need good aim close quarters, shotguns are close quarters and the hop up is strong but takes time to charge (maybe remove the ability to keep it charged by aim spamming?) I've gotten killed because of the charge time many times I don't even use that choke when I use that gun so expect to die from a shotgun within 15 meters, Bursts should go for the head (maybe slightly less recoil on prowler burst mode? Or a barrel attachment to do so?) And use cover more for Christ's sake, you can't run out with a flatline miss a 3rd of your clip and expect not to be punished for it. I've killed good wingman users many times, I've killed good peacekeeper users many times. Good aim, tactics, learning what guns aire oder the what, and also gee come to think of it ITS A BATTLE ROYALE BASED OF GETTING GOOD LOOT, a full set up wingman will perform better than an automatic weapon with no barrel or stock attatchment.
MechaDraco
6 years ago
Honestly, I feel like you're missing the overall point. The fact is, the majority of people do almost nothing but pick up these 2 guns. Yes get good, aim better, etc etc, blah blah blah.

The issue isn't skill, or lack there of. It's the overall usage of the weapons to the point that if you DON'T have one, you're gonna get mowed down by the guys that did. You can have all the skill with all the other weapons you want, but when that guy gets 1 lucky shot off from the wingman or the peacekeeper, it's basically over no matter how much you hit him.

Don't get me wrong, playing a little better as a team, working to your advantages, and picking and choosing when and where to engage is important. Of course it is, and yes using them to your advantage can win you a fight against someone with these weapons. It's not like I've never killed someone using a wingman or a peacekeeper before, it's not even that hard. The issue is that when you have one of these guns, you have a clear advantage in the fight, beyond skill, beyond equipment, and beyond teamwork.
RealEvandor001
6 years ago
Your post is spot on.
Anyone who replies that wingman and peacekeeper are balanced honestly has no right to discuss game balance in any game.
Side note I don’t see any changes coming because the bottom line is every game needs a low abilty high power weapon like peacekeeper....
me personally id be super happy if they would nerf it or at least it’s power up. The game would be better for it.
also boost snipers damage a little.